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Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old August 22 2013, 11:44 PM   #46
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
My "elevator pitch" read of Eccleston is "Davison with PTSD." He's a bit lost like Davison's Doctor was, and he's impotent like Davison's Doctor was, but he's hesitant in a way that Davison's Doctor wasn't. When I call Eccleston "impotent," it's for the "Coward, every time" speech, which is so contrary to who the Doctor is that I'm baffled by RTD's misunderstanding of the character.
I dunno. I can easily picture Davison saying that "coward" line and making the same choices that Eccleston did in that episode. While some Doctors would be capable of making that kind of cold, calculated decision (*cough*McCoy*cough*), others wouldn't.

I'd never really thought of Eccleston as "Davison with PTSD" but that actually fits now that I think about it. Although, Eccleston was a bit goofier than Davison. There were some small dollops of Troughton, T. Baker, & early McCoy in there.

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
And I don't find Eccleston particularly unfriendly -- except maybe in regards to Mickey, to whom he's a total asshole, but that's not just Eccleston, that's also Tennant.
Yeah. I was actually just rewatching some of the early Tennant episodes. What the hell was up with that? Even at his worst, the 6th Doctor was never so casually insulting to Peri as the 9th & 10th Doctors are to Mickey.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
It wasn't about how abrasive Sixy was, it was Peri... She'd slouch, look down ashamed, lower her voice, apologise in slow motion, they look up with cow eyes.

1 part bad acting, 3 parts picking on a moron.
Yeah. Colin Baker would have gotten away with it had he been paired up with a ballsy companion that wouldn't take any crap from him, like Tegan or Barbara. But when he picked on Peri, it just seemed mean.

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Christopher wrote: View Post
Benton was always a perceptive fellow. He tended to figure things out a step or two ahead of the Brigadier and have less trouble accepting them. So if the Brig could understand that the two Doctors were the same man, Benton would have no trouble with it.
Matter of fact, this was shown in The Three Doctors, when The Brig, faced with both 2 and 3 together, was still a step or two behind Benton in "Getting it", LOL
Although, I think Benton had the benefit of actually seeing the 2 Doctors together first.
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Old August 22 2013, 11:47 PM   #47
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Six is my favourite of the first seven doctors by far. But I doubt Capaldi will be like him much. Although His and Clara's relationship compared to Smith and Clara's relationship would probably echo Davison and Bryant's relationship compared with C. Baker and Bryant's relationship.
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Old August 22 2013, 11:55 PM   #48
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

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More from Moffat: ďOne of the horrors of regeneration is that a certain amount of his persona alters entirely. His appetites and his enthusiasms will change. And thatís sort of what Iím writing about now in Mattís last episode, the fact that heís terribly aware that heís about to be rewritten. And itís frightening.Ē

So basically he's taking Tennant's last line and turning it into an entire episode. Given how much froathing at the mouth and nerd rage those five words provoked, mostly from people who like to go on about how much better Moffat is than Davies, I wonder what the reaction will be like this time...
*shrug* I liked Tennant's last line, myself.

The Doctor is a changeable individual just like anyone. Who on earth is peppy 100% of the time? I have no issue with them exploring different parts of his personality and different moods. Partly because I've learned by now that on Doctor Who, they often talk in big ways but the end product is more "safe" and conventional than you'd first think. So when I read what Moffat is saying about the 12th Doctor, I'm thinking he'll be a combination of Pertwee and Tennant and Eccleston. At first he'll be gruff towards Clara but she'll change his mind, and all will be fine within 3 episodes and we'll go merrily along.
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Old August 22 2013, 11:56 PM   #49
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Yeah. While I like the idea of Capaldi as the Doctor, I have a really hard time picturing how Clara's relationship with the 11th Doctor will translate once he regenerates. So much of Clara's interactions with the 11th Doctor is based on this sort of casual flirtation with each other that I'm not sure makes sense with an older Doctor. (Unless Capaldi turns out to be a suave, sexy older Doctor like Jon Pertwee.)

It would be funny if he pointed out to her, "You know, no matter what face I have, there's still an 1100 year age difference between us."
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Old August 23 2013, 12:04 AM   #50
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Benton was always a perceptive fellow. He tended to figure things out a step or two ahead of the Brigadier and have less trouble accepting them. So if the Brig could understand that the two Doctors were the same man, Benton would have no trouble with it.
Matter of fact, this was shown in The Three Doctors, when The Brig, faced with both 2 and 3 together, was still a step or two behind Benton in "Getting it", LOL
Although, I think Benton had the benefit of actually seeing the 2 Doctors together first.
Yea, that's what I mean. Benton saw them, got a brief explanation and caught on right away. The Brig didn't get it, even when it was more thoroughly explained to him, LOL
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Old August 23 2013, 12:10 AM   #51
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

^Well, the Brig did understand that both Doctors were the same man. He figured that out on his own in "Spearhead from Space" even before he actually had a chance to speak to the new Doctor. What he had trouble comprehending in "The Three Doctors" was how the old Doctor and the new Doctor could both be there at the same time.
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Old August 23 2013, 03:16 AM   #52
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Eccleston's Doctor seemed to be less obviously likeable than Tennant and Smith's. Not to say UNlikeable, but one that could take things more seriously if the situation demanded to - and in the first half of that series, he was rather hard-edged and darker, but mellowed following the whole Are You My Mommy ordeal. Part of that characterization, of course, is embelished in the fact that he's the first post-Time War Doctor, which makes sense of that darkness in him.
That's almost totally not the read I have of Eccleston's Doctor.

My "elevator pitch" read of Eccleston is "Davison with PTSD." He's a bit lost like Davison's Doctor was, and he's impotent like Davison's Doctor was, but he's hesitant in a way that Davison's Doctor wasn't. When I call Eccleston "impotent," it's for the "Coward, every time" speech, which is so contrary to who the Doctor is that I'm baffled by RTD's misunderstanding of the character. (The Doctor who destroyed Skaro and Gallifrey is anything but a coward.)
Surely the point of that line, that episode, and that scene, is that the Doctor was that person once, but will not be again. It's not that the Doctor is a coward per se, but that if someone claims not being willing to go into battle and kill innocents is "cowardice", then yes, the Doctor is a coward. I love that moment, and I like its callback in "The Family of Blood."
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Old August 23 2013, 04:26 AM   #53
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Well, the Brig did understand that both Doctors were the same man. He figured that out on his own in "Spearhead from Space" even before he actually had a chance to speak to the new Doctor. What he had trouble comprehending in "The Three Doctors" was how the old Doctor and the new Doctor could both be there at the same time.
Right, he didn't catch on or accept it nearly as quickly as Benton. And the Brig got a better explanation than "I am he and he is me, kookookachoo"
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Old August 23 2013, 04:30 AM   #54
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Surely the point of that line, that episode, and that scene, is that the Doctor was that person once, but will not be again. It's not that the Doctor is a coward per se, but that if someone claims not being willing to go into battle and kill innocents is "cowardice", then yes, the Doctor is a coward.
Agreed. It's the Dalek Emperor who chooses the word "coward" to mean "one who will not exterminate an entire race." The Doctor is affirming that he's not willing to sink to their level by committing genocide, and since "coward or killer" was the choice of labels he was given, well, there you go. Also, maybe at that particular moment, he's willing to accept the "coward" description because he feels bitter at himself that his moral code won't let him wipe out the Daleks. But that's a function of his conflicted emotions at that moment. I'm sure RTD didn't intend it as an objective statement of fact.
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Old August 23 2013, 08:50 AM   #55
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

StCoop wrote: View Post
More from Moffat: ďOne of the horrors of regeneration is that a certain amount of his persona alters entirely. His appetites and his enthusiasms will change. And thatís sort of what Iím writing about now in Mattís last episode, the fact that heís terribly aware that heís about to be rewritten. And itís frightening.Ē

So basically he's taking Tennant's last line and turning it into an entire episode. Given how much froathing at the mouth and nerd rage those five words provoked, mostly from people who like to go on about how much better Moffat is than Davies, I wonder what the reaction will be like this time...
As opposed to RTD who wrote two episodes about it?

Seriously how long are you going to hang onto this hatred thing? A lot of fans were glad to see RTD go and happy to see Moffat take over and you've been blaming Moffat for this since before he even took over. Never mind that a lot of those fans might think differently now, or that there are plenty of fans who love both, and plenty who hate both.

Can't you see anything Moff does in positive terms?
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Old August 23 2013, 02:59 PM   #56
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

StCoop wrote: View Post
More from Moffat: ďOne of the horrors of regeneration is that a certain amount of his persona alters entirely. His appetites and his enthusiasms will change. And thatís sort of what Iím writing about now in Mattís last episode, the fact that heís terribly aware that heís about to be rewritten. And itís frightening.Ē

So basically he's taking Tennant's last line and turning it into an entire episode. Given how much froathing at the mouth and nerd rage those five words provoked, mostly from people who like to go on about how much better Moffat is than Davies, I wonder what the reaction will be like this time...
I thought the line was relatively well-liked (at least I remember it being so at the time). It's a way to have some impact of the Doctor "dying" when we all know he isn't going to die.
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Old August 23 2013, 03:11 PM   #57
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

I'm not sure I want another story where the Doctor is aware that his regeneration is coming up. It's a little too metatextual. Granted, the Fourth Doctor had warning of his impending demise from the Watcher, but it didn't really affect the way the story unfolded, and we, the viewers, didn't know that he knew the end was coming until it happened. But we just had Tennant's run end with a story -- heck, an entire arc -- where he had advance warning that his demise was coming, and Smith's whole run so far has been dominated by prophecies about the Doctor's imminent death, and I'm just getting a little tired of it.
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Old August 23 2013, 03:35 PM   #58
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Christopher wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I want another story where the Doctor is aware that his regeneration is coming up. ... But we just had Tennant's run end with a story -- heck, an entire arc -- where he had advance warning that his demise was coming, and Smith's whole run so far has been dominated by prophecies about the Doctor's imminent death, and I'm just getting a little tired of it.
I suspect it's the nature of arc-based television storytelling that's driving this.

Eccleston avoided the long-term build-up to his regeneration, but that was due to the uncertainty from the producers as to 1) whether or not the series was going to continue and 2) whether or not Eccleston was going to continue in the role if the series did continue.

Since then, however, you're right in noting that both Tennant and Smith have their inevitable ending overhanging the stories themselves. And I think that the example of series like Lost is the reason because audiences are primed now to expect apocalyptic changes at the end of seasons. But those apocalyptic events can't happen in a vacuum; instead, they have to be hinted at, built towards, and made unavoidable as the episodes tick down toward the inevitable conclusion. So long as Doctor Who is made in the style of arc-based genre television, I doubt we'll see another shocking, non-apocalyptic regeneration like "Caves of Androzani."

In the particular instance of Matt Smith's regeneration to Peter Capaldi, I'd like to think right now that the reason Smith's Doctor was so freaked out by the appearance of John Hurt is that he already knows what happens after that point because he's already witnessed his regeneration through Hurt's eyes so he knows that when he meets Hurt's Doctor that his end is nigh. (I know that it's been said that Smith will be in the Christmas episode. I'm not convinced by that yet.)
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Old August 23 2013, 04:02 PM   #59
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Huh? Smith is in the Christmas episode, I thought he was just going to regenerate into Capaldi at the end? The regen isn't in the 50th.
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Old August 23 2013, 04:07 PM   #60
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Starkers wrote: View Post
Huh? Smith is in the Christmas episode, I thought he was just going to regenerate into Capaldi at the end? The regen isn't in the 50th.
We'll know it when we'll see it, right?
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