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Old August 21 2013, 11:08 PM   #31
MacLeod
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Re: Flagship

CoveTom wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
PhoenixClass wrote: View Post
I find #2 to be overly complicated. Keeping a ship name and registry number is a sign of special recognition that would be diluted by simply keeping ship names while upgrading classes. Enterprise had a special history which is why it was honored by keeping the name and registry through various incarnations.

Afterall, ship classes are phased in and out as new technologies are developed but names are not usually repeated.
Sure they are we've seen a couple of Defiant's and Hoods in Star Trek.

And what about the fact that they have been fifteen ships in the Royal Navy to bear the name Enterprise?
There have been multiple ships which had names reused. But as far as we know, with the exception of one brief mention in "Where Silence Has Lease" from TNG, we've never seen a case other than the Enterprise where the registry number was reused. Well, okay, the very last few episodes of DS9 with the Defiant, but that was only because it was the final few episodes and they didn't want to spend the money to refilm all their stock shots. We know that "really" the new Defiant would at least have been changed from an NX prefix to an NCC prefix since they were now production-line models.

Therefore, it seems that the registry number being preserved is the thing that makes the Enterprise unique.
Yes but I was specifically responding to the comment that names are not reused. Registries are a sperate matter.
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Old August 22 2013, 12:12 AM   #32
The Old Building & Loan
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Re: Flagship

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Whatever Galaxy class was launch at that time would have been carried that title.
Not necessarily. They likely chose to give the first Galaxy-class ship in full service the name and registry number for a reason.
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Old August 22 2013, 03:14 AM   #33
PhoenixClass
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Re: Flagship

"Sure they are we've seen a couple of Defiant's and Hoods in Star Trek.

And what about the fact that they have been fifteen ships in the Royal Navy to bear the name Enterprise?"

I said names are not usually reused. The fact that Defiant and Hood have been used more than once does not indicate that it is a standard practice.

So far we have a couple of Defiants and Hoods, the Enterprise 6 times (7 if you count the retcon of the last series) and the Yamato which had an "E" after her registry. There might be others but those are the exmples that have come to our minds easily. That's 4 names out of a fleet of thousands of ships - not a regular practice.

I'm not sure how Royal Navy practice is relevant here. We don't know why the Royal Navy reused those ship names. Starfleet practice is not necessarily the same as the practice of current navies.

My comment is slightly off topic but it does support the argument that the reuse of the name and number indicates flagship status (in the political or diplomatic or public sense, not in the formal flag officer sense).

Last edited by PhoenixClass; August 22 2013 at 03:15 AM. Reason: error in quoting format
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Old August 22 2013, 03:23 AM   #34
Rķu rķu, chķu
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Re: Flagship

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Whatever Galaxy class was launch at that time would have been carried that title.
Not necessarily. They likely chose to give the first Galaxy-class ship in full service the name and registry number for a reason.
The Enterprise-D was not the first Galaxy-class ship - not only is this self-evident because of the class name, but we have actually seen the USS Galaxy onscreen. So I am not sure where you're going with this.
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Old August 22 2013, 04:16 AM   #35
The Old Building & Loan
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Re: Flagship

^"In full service"...I was under the impression that the Galaxy was a test vessel.

In any case, I was responding to T'Girl's assertion that the first Galaxy would have been the flagship by default. If that were the case, and the Galaxy was in full service, then the Galaxy would have been the flagship...but it wasn't.
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Old August 22 2013, 04:31 AM   #36
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Re: Flagship

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
^"In full service"...I was under the impression that the Galaxy was a test vessel.
We saw it in some of the Dominion War battle scenes on DS9.
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Old August 22 2013, 04:39 AM   #37
The Old Building & Loan
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Re: Flagship

Possibly pushed into service just for the war, then. There was some offscreen source material to that effect concerning the many Galaxies we saw in the battle scenes.
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Old August 22 2013, 05:16 AM   #38
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Re: Flagship

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
A bit like HMS Hood was the flagship of the WWII Royal Navy in the sense of being the biggest (well, longest), the most famous, and the one whose loss mattered the most.
I've never seen anything contemporary referring to Hood that way, I think that would have sounded completely wrong at the time. Hood wasn't even flagship of her fleet; the C-in-C flew his flag in Nelson and then King George V.

And it sounds completely wrong to me when it is said in TNG, but it sounded good to someone and we're stuck with it.
I have always understood the HMS Hood to have been the pride of the British Navy and that is how I have interpreted the description of the Enterprise-D as the flagship of Starfleet, it was the pride of the fleet.
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Old August 22 2013, 09:30 AM   #39
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Re: Flagship

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Not necessarily. They likely chose to give the first Galaxy-class ship in full service the name and registry number for a reason.
Even if you exempt the Galaxy as the first of her class "operational," the first operational Galaxy class could have been the Challenger, Odyssey, Venture, Yamato and not the Enterprise.

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
In any case, I was responding to T'Girl's assertion that the first Galaxy would have been the flagship by default.
I didn't say the first Galaxy would have been the flagship. It was my assetion that regardless of the name painted on the hull (or which of the Galaxy's it was), the ship that was constructed at that time would have been the flagship. Starfleet ordered a ship built to fulfill a certain role.

It was scheduled to be the flagship.

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Old August 22 2013, 11:31 AM   #40
Timo
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Re: Flagship

Then again, when one builds multiple essentially identical ships with such flexibility as demonstrated by the E-D, one probably has completely free choice over which one to appoint as the Federation Flagship... It might even be a title that rotates annually, falling on the E-D once during early TNG and once during ST:GEN (and thus sorta supporting the "six Galaxies" idea).

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Old August 22 2013, 03:15 PM   #41
The Old Building & Loan
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Re: Flagship

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Not necessarily. They likely chose to give the first Galaxy-class ship in full service the name and registry number for a reason.
Even if you exempt the Galaxy as the first of her class "operational," the first operational Galaxy class could have been the Challenger, Odyssey, Venture, Yamato and not the Enterprise.
But it wasn't. They chose to give their flagship the name and registry of the Enterprise for a reason.
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Old August 22 2013, 03:31 PM   #42
Merry Christmas
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Re: Flagship

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
But it wasn't. They chose to give their flagship the name and registry of the Enterprise for a reason.
How does that make it the first operational Galaxy?

Timo wrote: View Post
Then again, when one builds multiple essentially identical ships with such flexibility as demonstrated by the E-D, one probably has completely free choice over which one to appoint as the Federation Flagship
Internally the multiple Galaxy's might not have been the same, if purposely built as not just a explorer and weapons platform, but also as a speciality diplomatic and Federation show piece, the Flagship could have facilities that the other Galaxy's lacked.

More large living quarters for guests, more extensive conference abilities, stuff like that.

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Old August 22 2013, 03:45 PM   #43
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Flagship

Didn't the Odyssey have a different bridge configuration?

And shouldn't the designation of "flagship" also reflect the crew assigned to the ship, not just the ship?
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Old August 22 2013, 03:53 PM   #44
The Old Building & Loan
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Re: Flagship

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
But it wasn't. They chose to give their flagship the name and registry of the Enterprise for a reason.
How does that make it the first operational Galaxy?
It doesn't matter if it was or wasn't. It only serves my point if the Galaxy was fully operational, because they chose to wait for the second ship in the series, the one that would be given the name and registry of the Enterprise, to designate as the Federation's flagship. Why wasn't it the Galaxy or the Yamato? Because that was never the hero ship of the show...it was always the Enterprise, whatever exact ship was wearing its fabled name and registry at the time.
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Old August 22 2013, 04:35 PM   #45
Timo
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Re: Flagship

...Can we even be sure that the title "Federation Flagship" is unique, definite article or no? Perhaps one of those is needed for every preplanned first contact situation, so the Federation has three dozen?

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