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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old August 18 2013, 04:55 AM   #46
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post

In short, for the TL,DR crowd, what I'm saying is that for those who hold the idea that Eccleston's Doctor was the Time War Doctor, this issue doesn't rule out that hypothesis.
There's really no reason to think that there isn't more than one Time War Doctor, is there? Something could have happened to the Doctor that caused him to regenerate in the middle of the Time War. Hell, maybe a couple times? I've never seen the TV movie; do we know the fate of the 8th Doctor? Could he have been in the Time War as well?

Hell, maybe Hurt's Doctor started the Time War.
Four was sent to Skaro to prevent the Daleks from becoming, so, yea, more than one of them involved in the Time War. Eight, we only saw about an episode of screentime for him, since it was a TV movie with commercials for a 2 hour slot, and McCoy had at least 10-15 minutes, and McGann took a while to rise and then took awhile to acclimate. It was like any first adventure, the movie ended with him continuing his journeys. So, yes, he could've been summoned back to Gallifrey and become heavily involved, and then exhausted that life and Regenerated into Hurt, who again Regenerated into Eccelston who finally said "ENOUGH" and ended it. (Any one, two or all three could've been heavily involved)
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Old August 20 2013, 05:03 PM   #47
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

I'm not very well at ease with the notion the Hurt incarnation is disavowed because he killed the Time Lords. He's never denied that to anyone since the new series started.
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Old August 20 2013, 06:06 PM   #48
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

That is a great point. The only way it can work is, if what the Hurt Doctor did occured during the Time War, but not the genocide of the Time Lords and the Daleks.
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Old August 20 2013, 06:46 PM   #49
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
That is a great point. The only way it can work is, if what the Hurt Doctor did occured during the Time War, but not the genocide of the Time Lords and the Daleks.
You can't dismiss the possibility that whatever he did (to make the eleventh Doctor not consider him the Doctor) had nothing to do with the Time War. Point is, right now we simply don't know anything.
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Old August 20 2013, 08:36 PM   #50
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Maybe DocHurt is the one who came up with the idea/method for the Final Sanction.
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Old August 21 2013, 08:34 PM   #51
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

It really makes no sense, I'm sure when Hurts Doctor came into being after Mcgann's regeneration he was the Doctor! Even TNOTD onscreen says 'John Hurt as the Doctor'. So even if he does something bad and his future incarnations don't want to call him the Doctor. He still WAS the Doctor and would be to others and therefor this bullshit that there are only ''11' Doctors is stupid.
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Old August 22 2013, 01:59 AM   #52
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Depends. Maybe John Hurt decides immediately after regenerating after his "ears and nose, not bad, liking the beard" routine to abandon the Doctor name. Or maybe Paul McGann renounced it just before regenerating, and therefore Hurt would never really have been a Doctor? Though I guess that would actually make McGann the one who broke the promise.
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Old August 22 2013, 02:19 AM   #53
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Is there any real possible way that this won't change established character things for either the Eighth or the Ninth Doctors, and not annoy us, too?
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Old August 22 2013, 02:26 AM   #54
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Is there any real possible way that this won't change established character things for either the Eighth or the Ninth Doctors, and not annoy us, too?
There's nothing established, though.

The last time we see the eighth Doctor the Time War hasn't happened yet. The first time we see the ninth Doctor, the Time War is over and the Doctor is in clean-up and PTSD mode. What happens in between? Could be anything, really.

Hurt happens to fall in a hole that hasn't even been sketched out beyond throwaway references. Fans assume certain things must have happened and to whom them happened, but those are ultimately only fan assumptions.

And, frankly, Doctor Who has been a series that has always played fast and loose with its own past. Moffat grew up at a time when "The Deadly Assassin" was considered by some fans to be an atrocity because it ran contrary to what "The War Games" revealed. If Moffat wants to do something as radical with Hurt as "The Deadly Assassin" was in its time, I salute him!
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Old August 22 2013, 02:28 AM   #55
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

^ Did any post-McGann Doctor, before now, ever make reference to the specific numbered Doctor that they are?
(I have never seen nuWho so I have no idea what they said)

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
"The Deadly Assassin" was considered by some fans to be an atrocity because it ran contrary to what "The War Games" revealed
Explain.
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Old August 22 2013, 03:23 AM   #56
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
"The Deadly Assassin" was considered by some fans to be an atrocity because it ran contrary to what "The War Games" revealed
Explain.
Some saw that "The War Games" and the Pertwee era had made the Time Lords out to be god-like beings, while "The Deadly Assassin" depicted them as power-hungry politicians. The Doctor Who Appreciation Society tore it apart at the time because it got everything they thought they knew wrong. This essay may explain it better than I can.
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Old August 22 2013, 03:38 AM   #57
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Did any post-McGann Doctor, before now, ever make reference to the specific numbered Doctor that they are?
(I have never seen nuWho so I have no idea what they said)
Yes.
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Old August 22 2013, 08:43 AM   #58
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Yeah Eleven's been refereed to as the eleventh Doctor a few times, though that's explainable if he doesn't consider Hurt a "Doctor". Trickier is Ten's comment to Sarah Jane that he's regenerated half a dozen times since they last saw each other.
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Old August 22 2013, 12:42 PM   #59
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

^This can resolved if we take into account her appearance in the Five Doctors. Though it does involve a little bit of hand-waving.
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Old August 22 2013, 12:50 PM   #60
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Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Starkers wrote: View Post
Yeah Eleven's been refereed to as the eleventh Doctor a few times, though that's explainable if he doesn't consider Hurt a "Doctor". Trickier is Ten's comment to Sarah Jane that he's regenerated half a dozen times since they last saw each other.
If 10 remembers The Five Doctors, that's only 5 Regenerations if you don't include Hurt. If it's since 4 he's referring to, he has regenerated at least half a dozen times, so, it's still not an incorrect statement, since he didn't say "exactly" or "only"

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