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Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old August 22 2013, 12:07 AM   #16
Mr Awe
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
It sounds like he's gonna be a combo of Hartnell-Eccleston, less obviously friendly Doctor. At least, thats kind of what I got from this.
Nah, Eccleston was friendly enough, I rewatched his entire season this year.

"Difficult" to a "fierce" degree, to the point where you're thankful for the normal characters, really points to Colin Baker, who obviously drew some from Hartnell.

Why do I get the feeling that we're at the point where Davison just regenerated and we had no idea what was going to hit us. Clara may be the next Peri.

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Old August 22 2013, 12:21 AM   #17
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

^ I wonder what the reaction would be like if the Doctor tried to throttle her. Funnily enough I don't think there was much of a hullabaloo when Six tried to strangle Peri, but this time around it's unimaginable that there wouldn't be some controversy.
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Old August 22 2013, 01:02 AM   #18
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post
Eccleston's Doctor seemed to be less obviously likeable than Tennant and Smith's. Not to say UNlikeable, but one that could take things more seriously if the situation demanded to - and in the first half of that series, he was rather hard-edged and darker, but mellowed following the whole Are You My Mommy ordeal. Part of that characterization, of course, is embelished in the fact that he's the first post-Time War Doctor, which makes sense of that darkness in him.
That's almost totally not the read I have of Eccleston's Doctor.

My "elevator pitch" read of Eccleston is "Davison with PTSD." He's a bit lost like Davison's Doctor was, and he's impotent like Davison's Doctor was, but he's hesitant in a way that Davison's Doctor wasn't. When I call Eccleston "impotent," it's for the "Coward, every time" speech, which is so contrary to who the Doctor is that I'm baffled by RTD's misunderstanding of the character. (The Doctor who destroyed Skaro and Gallifrey is anything but a coward.) And I don't find Eccleston particularly unfriendly -- except maybe in regards to Mickey, to whom he's a total asshole, but that's not just Eccleston, that's also Tennant.

In short, then, I don't see Eccelston at all the way you do.
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Old August 22 2013, 01:02 AM   #19
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

I picture(hope for) a combination of 3 and 4 with a bit of 10's energy and a turn of 11's darker edge up a notch.
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Old August 22 2013, 01:09 AM   #20
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

He’s going to be an older, trickier and fiercer Doctor

Sounds good.

“Just as Clara’s learning to have a proper old crush on him, suddenly he’s Malcolm Tucker!”

PLease no girl crushing on the doctor, or at least don't make her as annoying as Rose.

Moffat thinks it’ll be fun seeing Clara cope with the Doctor being completely different…
…”I think the fun story will be – and we have the opportunity here – is this is what regeneration can do to you. He can be very, very different.”

Didn't Rose and a few other companions go through that already?

“People really love Jenna, so we make the Doctor quite difficult…”
…Moffat likens the situation to Tom Baker’s first season: “He’s really quite difficult to take at the beginning, and you’re very grateful that Sarah and the Brigadier are there to reassure you.”

Um, I am still iffy on Jenna's character. She is a nice enough girl but I don't haven't found my self loving Clara yet. I have seen some of both Pertwee and Baker's episodes. Not sure how Tom wasn't easy to take. I had no problem with watching either.
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Old August 22 2013, 01:09 AM   #21
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

More excited than ever. Bring it!
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Old August 22 2013, 01:33 AM   #22
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

chelly wrote: View Post
Moffat thinks it’ll be fun seeing Clara cope with the Doctor being completely different…
…”I think the fun story will be – and we have the opportunity here – is this is what regeneration can do to you. He can be very, very different.”

Didn't Rose and a few other companions go through that already?
No, not really. Like I said, the differences among the past three Doctors have been minor compared to the differences between consecutive Doctors in the original series. They've all been relatively young, good-looking, and manic with a mix of brooding and comic attributes; the differences have been more or less shifts in emphasis. It's nothing like the shock Ben and Polly went through when the Doctor they knew as a crochety, proud old gentleman turned into a feckless, Chaplinesque eccentric, or what Sarah Jane and the Brigadier had to cope with when the elegant, mature, authoritative Doctor they knew turned into a madcap iconoclast spouting nonsense, or what Peri faced when the gentle, sensitive young Doctor she knew turned into a bombastic, aggressive, unstable egomaniac who tried to strangle her within minutes of his regeneration.
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Old August 22 2013, 08:37 AM   #23
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

I’m amused that Moffat makes specific reference to Tom, yet people are seeing Colin in the description. Surely what Moffat is saying is that Capldi will be very different to Smith, and might not be as instantly engaging, which I think is likely given the difference in the actors. I think the only thing that worries me is that he’s putting a lot on Clara’s shoulders. Sarah Jane and the Brigadier were well established characters, whereas I feel we still haven’t seen the real Clara.

For me the trouble with Six is not that he wasn’t like the other Doctors, it was that he seemed to take all the somewhat negative aspects of them and dial it up to 11 with no real redeeming features.

He was cantankerous, well so was Davison, Hartnell and others, but with Five his cantankerous was offset by a gentle nature and the fact that he so often didn’t seem in control of the situation, he was never arrogant, or if he was he never seemed to really believe he was the smartest man in the room.

By contrast Six was arrogant in the extreme, and whilst you could say other Doctors had been (take Pertwee) often this was offset somewhat. Pertwee could be arrogant and cantankerous but he was also quite avuncular and noble, for me Six just didn’t have any positive points to hang onto.

Given Capaldi’s era as a fan I can see him being more like Pertwee than Colin. Much as I love Smith I am looking forward to a different direction.

Allyn, I never considered that Nine and Five were similar before, but what you say makes a lot of sense. I still like the “Coward” line, because of the context, he isn’t so much saying he’s a coward as he won’t commit genocide…and actually maybe he didn’t, maybe it was Hurt? Nine’s comment about “Coward, every time.” Might make more sense in that context.
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Old August 22 2013, 10:38 AM   #24
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

I could see where they were going with Colin's Doctor. Make him initially scary then more likeable as time went on. Unfortunately when they came up with the idea, nobody foresaw the upcoming nonsense with Michael Grade.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to a less silly Doctor.
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Old August 22 2013, 10:54 AM   #25
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Starkers wrote: View Post
I’m amused that Moffat makes specific reference to Tom, yet people are seeing Colin in the description. Surely what Moffat is saying is that Capldi will be very different to Smith, and might not be as instantly engaging, which I think is likely given the difference in the actors. I think the only thing that worries me is that he’s putting a lot on Clara’s shoulders. Sarah Jane and the Brigadier were well established characters, whereas I feel we still haven’t seen the real Clara.

For me the trouble with Six is not that he wasn’t like the other Doctors, it was that he seemed to take all the somewhat negative aspects of them and dial it up to 11 with no real redeeming features.

He was cantankerous, well so was Davison, Hartnell and others, but with Five his cantankerous was offset by a gentle nature and the fact that he so often didn’t seem in control of the situation, he was never arrogant, or if he was he never seemed to really believe he was the smartest man in the room.

By contrast Six was arrogant in the extreme, and whilst you could say other Doctors had been (take Pertwee) often this was offset somewhat. Pertwee could be arrogant and cantankerous but he was also quite avuncular and noble, for me Six just didn’t have any positive points to hang onto.

Given Capaldi’s era as a fan I can see him being more like Pertwee than Colin. Much as I love Smith I am looking forward to a different direction.

Allyn, I never considered that Nine and Five were similar before, but what you say makes a lot of sense. I still like the “Coward” line, because of the context, he isn’t so much saying he’s a coward as he won’t commit genocide…and actually maybe he didn’t, maybe it was Hurt? Nine’s comment about “Coward, every time.” Might make more sense in that context.
I always took the "Coward" line not as a rewrite of the character, but as a statement that if he has the option of not commiting genocide, he'd always take it. It also took guts to take out both the Time Lords and the Daleks in the Time War, so being a coward is the opposite of that - and its the culmination of his development in that season, because he might not have been as reluctant at the start of it.
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Old August 22 2013, 11:10 AM   #26
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

I listened to Big Finish 123 the other day, where Benny (Summerfield), a former companion of Seven meets Eight for the first time and they're running and hiding from the bad guns, and the conversation went like this...

"So what's your plan?"

"Plan? What plan?"

"Your plan."

"I don't have a plan."

"But... You always have a plan."

"Not this time, I'm completely in the dark."
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Old August 22 2013, 02:24 PM   #27
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Christopher wrote: View Post
chelly wrote: View Post
Moffat thinks it’ll be fun seeing Clara cope with the Doctor being completely different…
…”I think the fun story will be – and we have the opportunity here – is this is what regeneration can do to you. He can be very, very different.”

Didn't Rose and a few other companions go through that already?
No, not really. Like I said, the differences among the past three Doctors have been minor compared to the differences between consecutive Doctors in the original series. They've all been relatively young, good-looking, and manic with a mix of brooding and comic attributes; the differences have been more or less shifts in emphasis. It's nothing like the shock Ben and Polly went through when the Doctor they knew as a crochety, proud old gentleman turned into a feckless, Chaplinesque eccentric, or what Sarah Jane and the Brigadier had to cope with when the elegant, mature, authoritative Doctor they knew turned into a madcap iconoclast spouting nonsense, or what Peri faced when the gentle, sensitive young Doctor she knew turned into a bombastic, aggressive, unstable egomaniac who tried to strangle her within minutes of his regeneration.
I think you need to go back and rewatch the nine minute '06 review of the tenth Doctor, Rose was quite taken aback by the new tenth Doctor. And really Tennant was a more active Doctor than Ecclston's rather brooding and condescending Doctor.
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Old August 22 2013, 02:27 PM   #28
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Starkers wrote: View Post
For me the trouble with Six is not that he wasn’t like the other Doctors, it was that he seemed to take all the somewhat negative aspects of them and dial it up to 11 with no real redeeming features.
That's an unfair assessment of the Sixth Doctor because--like all Doctors--he was still a champion of good when all was said and done. Sure, he had a rough start but that was by design. Towards the end of his run, the Sixth Doctor had mellowed out quite a lot (I think that was also by design).

I think the Sixth Doctor was a reminder to viewers that he was an alien, a Time Lord, and this version of the Doctor had a more objective view towards humans than previous incarnations. That may come across as arrogant to some, but it's a trait that's common to every incarnation of the Doctor to varying degrees. With the Sixth Doctor, it was sort of amplified by the fact he didn't care what people thought of him too much, but even this was toned down over time with Peri and Mel.
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Old August 22 2013, 02:30 PM   #29
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

I love the Sixth Doctor, and respected how little he cared for what people thought of him. He dressed how he liked, and said what he liked. I really responded to that.
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Old August 22 2013, 03:00 PM   #30
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Re: Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

It wasn't about how abrasive Sixy was, it was Peri... She'd slouch, look down ashamed, lower her voice, apologise in slow motion, they look up with cow eyes.

1 part bad acting, 3 parts picking on a moron.
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