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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old August 21 2013, 05:46 PM   #241
Greg Cox
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
His story in TMP is pretty much about the pure Vulcan way not being for him.
People seem pissed that Abrams didn't take eighty-hours to get to that point in what is likely a trilogy of films that will have a total runtime of six-hours!
And do we really want to see Quinto's Spock doggedly retrace the gradual evolution of Nimoy's Spock, step by bloody step, for the next forty years? Or maybe we can find a new way to explore Spock's dual nature--perhaps through a long-term relationship with a human woman. There's something we haven't seen before!

Meanwhile, NuLeila Kalomi is wondering what Uhura has that she doesn't . . . .
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Old August 21 2013, 05:46 PM   #242
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
I bash him cause his stuff is shit.
In your opinion.
Yes, in my opinion.

And you have yet to really contribute anything to back up the repeated vulgar torrent of verbal 'runs' you've had over the topic for 4 and a half obsessive years.
Again, it's my OPINION. "Backing up" is only necessary if I wanted to waste my time trying to convince the Abrams sycophants around these parts of the flaws in his work. That's never going to happen.

I merely offer an opinion. How you deal with it is your problem...
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Old August 21 2013, 05:48 PM   #243
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Calling people who like the movie "sycophants" because they disagree with you doesn't help your case.
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Old August 21 2013, 07:13 PM   #244
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
...the Abrams sycophants around these parts of the flaws in his work. That's never going to happen.
Got to love when someone resorts to name-calling because someone else likes a piece of entertainment that they don't.
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Old August 21 2013, 07:19 PM   #245
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
...the Abrams sycophants around these parts of the flaws in his work. That's never going to happen.
Got to love when someone resorts to name-calling because someone else likes a piece of entertainment that they don't.
I've never watched anything else Abrams has worked on, do not really care about him as a person. The only thing I am concerned about is his work on the current Trek moves which I adore and rewatch more than the older forms of Trek, which now bore me considerably.

But somehow I'm a sycophant to the man and think he can do no wrong? wow, I must have missed that entirely.

It's exactly my point right there, the name calling, abuse, condescention from the ones who cannot or will out understand we like a couple of movies, amazing.
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Old August 21 2013, 08:12 PM   #246
Greg Cox
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

You know, I keep vowing not to get sucked into one of these time sinks again ('cause, deadlines!), but then somebody insists (again) that all "real" fans reject the reboot or suggests that anybody who doesn't is some shallow newbie who doesn't know what Trek is really all about. Or doesn't have the right fannish credentials. Or isn't a fan for the "right" reasons.

If somebody likes or doesn't like the reboot, fine. But don't presume you speak for "the fans," no matter what side of the timeline you fall on!

So let's lay off the "More Trekkie than thou" stuff, please.
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Last edited by Greg Cox; August 21 2013 at 08:27 PM.
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Old August 21 2013, 08:23 PM   #247
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Amen.
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Old August 21 2013, 08:43 PM   #248
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

There do seem to be a lot of people on both sides of the debate that think something is fundamentally wrong with people who don't share their opinion.

To me, the Prime timeline is more entertaining. The reboot? It's alright, but I don't think it's as good. Into Darkness should've been trying to invent it's own original universe and story instead of cherry picking every "good" element they can from the prime timeline, putting it all in a blender and coming out with a "new" story.
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Old August 21 2013, 09:08 PM   #249
Greg Cox
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

R. Star wrote: View Post
There do seem to be a lot of people on both sides of the debate that think something is fundamentally wrong with people who don't share their opinion.
To be fair, this is not just a Trekkie thing. I've seen the same on comic-book message boards.

"If you don't grasp everything that's wrong with the post-Silver Age, pre-Crisis origin story, then you're not a real Captain Armadillo fan!"
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Old August 21 2013, 09:12 PM   #250
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

^Old Captain Armadillo is dead, deal with it!
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Old August 21 2013, 09:18 PM   #251
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Also Captain Armadillo comic books are not canon, so stop wasting your time.
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Old August 21 2013, 09:18 PM   #252
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I guess you missed "Journey to Babel", "Amok Time", "Yesteryear" and the entirety of Star Trek: Enterprise?

Name one full-blooded Vulcan that exemplifies IDIC. Even Sarek shunned his own son for eighteen years. Why? For daring to explore a little of that infinite diversity rather than stay on Vulcan.
Surak. After all, he's the guy who invented the concept.

Sarek didn't shun Spock for wanting to associate with non-Vulcans or go off-planet. He shunned Spock because:

A. Spock refused to follow in Sarek's footsteps in the field of diplomacy.

B. Spock refused to settle for the Vulcan Science Academy. Sarek saw that as Spock rejecting his Vulcan heritage and Vulcan ways.

C. Spock chose Starfleet. Sarek's objections to Starfleet were because sooner or later, Spock would be ordered to kill. Vulcan is a pacifist culture, and has been since the time of Surak. Sarek saw Spock as going against that - not necessarily that he would go nuts and kill for the hell of it, but that he would have to kill, period.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
The NuTrek Vulcans contradict themselves, completely forgetting about IDIC.

In the Prime Universe I never got the impression the Spock was shunned...
Huh?

All you have to do is watch Amok Time and Yesteryear to know that what you state simply isn't true.
In Yesteryear, we saw Vulcan children making fun of Spock and insulting him. That's hardly logical behavior, but it can be said that they were children, insufficiently trained as yet in logic (or good manners). The Healer said disparaging things about Spock because Spock had played a prank on him.

In Amok Time, there are several factors involved:

1. Pon-farr is such an embarrassing thing that Vulcans don't like to talk about it with each other, let alone any other people.

2. T'Pring is a selfish, jealous bitch who has to have it All About Her. She and Stonn deserve each other.

And finally, it's silly to accuse Sarek of not embracing IDIC. He married a human woman, didn't he? And not once, but twice (Perrin in TNG).

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I guess you missed "Journey to Babel", "Yesteryear" and the entirety of Star Trek: Enterprise?

Name one full-blooded Vulcan that exemplifies IDIC. Even Sarek shunned his own son for eighteen years. Why? For daring to explore a little of that infinite diversity rather than stay on Vulcan.
Tuvok. He might have been annoyed when the likes of Neelix and the EMH poked him about being so logical, but he accepted and advocated diversity.
Tuvok also mentored younger crewmembers (Kes and Harry). He would have felt comfortable with Seven, since she had a calm, ordered mind and didn't often display excessive emotion.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
You know, I keep vowing not to get sucked into one of these time sinks again ('cause, deadlines!), but then somebody insists (again) that all "real" fans reject the reboot or suggests that anybody who doesn't is some shallow newbie who doesn't know what Trek is really all about. Or doesn't have the right fannish credentials. Or isn't a fan for the "right" reasons.

If somebody likes or doesn't like the reboot, fine. But don't presume you speak for "the fans," no matter what side of the timeline you fall on!

So let's lay off the "More Trekkie than thou" stuff, please.
Dunno if you're partly referring to me, since you mentioned my using the terms "realSpock", "realKirk", and "realUhura." I used those terms because that's how I differentiate between characters who are the original, authentic ones and the cartoony ones depicted in the nuTrek movies. At no time did I say that the people who like these movies aren't real Star Trek fans. They just happen to like what is, to me, an inferior kind of Star Trek that doesn't feel real or authentic to me.
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Old August 21 2013, 09:22 PM   #253
Greg Cox
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

bbjeg wrote: View Post
^Old Captain Armadillo is dead, deal with it!
But he was only the true Captain Armadillo. All those new versions are cheap imitations. I know because he was the first Captain Armadillo I ever read about . . . and my childhood trumps your childhood!

Heck, kids these days have never even seen the old black-and-white "Captain Armadillo" serials, so what do they know? They don't count as real fans!
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Old August 21 2013, 09:35 PM   #254
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I guess you missed "Journey to Babel", "Amok Time", "Yesteryear" and the entirety of Star Trek: Enterprise?

Name one full-blooded Vulcan that exemplifies IDIC. Even Sarek shunned his own son for eighteen years. Why? For daring to explore a little of that infinite diversity rather than stay on Vulcan.
Surak. After all, he's the guy who invented the concept.
Fair enough in theory, although our only glimpses of the man himself are a dream-images from Spock's and Captain Archer. After all, Gene Roddenberry started something great despite not exactly living up to it's ideals himself.
Sarek didn't shun Spock for wanting to associate with non-Vulcans or go off-planet. He shunned Spock because:

A. Spock refused to follow in Sarek's footsteps in the field of diplomacy.

B. Spock refused to settle for the Vulcan Science Academy. Sarek saw that as Spock rejecting his Vulcan heritage and Vulcan ways.

C. Spock chose Starfleet. Sarek's objections to Starfleet were because sooner or later, Spock would be ordered to kill. Vulcan is a pacifist culture, and has been since the time of Surak. Sarek saw Spock as going against that - not necessarily that he would go nuts and kill for the hell of it, but that he would have to kill, period.
So, MASSIVELY FAILING at IDIC, then.
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Old August 21 2013, 09:41 PM   #255
Greg Cox
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Timewalker wrote: View Post

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
You know, I keep vowing not to get sucked into one of these time sinks again ('cause, deadlines!), but then somebody insists (again) that all "real" fans reject the reboot or suggests that anybody who doesn't is some shallow newbie who doesn't know what Trek is really all about. Or doesn't have the right fannish credentials. Or isn't a fan for the "right" reasons.

If somebody likes or doesn't like the reboot, fine. But don't presume you speak for "the fans," no matter what side of the timeline you fall on!

So let's lay off the "More Trekkie than thou" stuff, please.
Dunno if you're partly referring to me, since you mentioned my using the terms "realSpock", "realKirk", and "realUhura." I used those terms because that's how I differentiate between characters who are the original, authentic ones and the cartoony ones depicted in the nuTrek movies. At no time did I say that the people who like these movies aren't real Star Trek fans. They just happen to like what is, to me, an inferior kind of Star Trek that doesn't feel real or authentic to me.
Don't worry. That wasn't directed at anyone in particular, but at this whole recurring meme of "Real Fans Vs. the Reboot" that keeps turning up like bad penny. Honestly, at this point, all these threads are starting to blur together in my mind so I'm sometimes not even sure who I'm responding to!

Nothing personal. Heck, I recently got into this same debate with a reporter at the New York Post!
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