RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,724
Posts: 5,214,932
Members: 24,210
Currently online: 789
Newest member: vagarcia74


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 20 2013, 05:35 PM   #61
Push The Button
Commander
 
Push The Button's Avatar
 
Location: Smithfield, Rhode Island USA
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Back in the 80s, I had two friends that became fundamentalist Christians. These were smart guys, and big Trek fans to boot. It was sad to see how they lost their critical thinking skills and turned into a couple of scripture spewing God-bots after hearing The Word.

Anyway, things are getting better, even though they don't seem to be. If you could go back in time to the American south in 1850, for example, a description of our present-day world would sound like fantasy to people of that time and place. And just think about how far we have progressed since then, in every field of endeavour.
__________________
It is the stated position of the Department of Defense and the United States Air Force that a rigidly enforced system of safeguards and controls insure that occurrences such as those depicted in this story cannot happen.
Push The Button is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 06:32 PM   #62
Stoek
Commander
 
Location: Stoek
View Stoek's Twitter Profile
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

This is going to be my only post in this thread. Those who understand what I say will and those who don't won't.

I have no religion but Star Trek.

I will say that again for those who might think I miss typed.

I Have No Religion But Star Trek.

When I was young I was raised non denominational more or less fundamentalist Christian. I stayed because of a fear of eternal torment. You know the eternal torment that a "just and loving god" promises those who don't fall in line with his program?

I tried, as hard as I could to stay a christian. But the more I read and thought the more I realized that any deity who was "jealous" was not a deity worthy of my respect let alone my worship.

So I quit. Gave it right up.

I tried material reductionism for a while but I've had experiences that suggest to me that there is something more out there than meat and chemicals and self delusion. Right now I broadly identify as Pagan.

But the real truth is that I am a Trekker.

I am on the ongoing human voyage of becoming if only microscopically better a person than I was when I started. And to me the teachings of Trek are articles of faith.

There might never be warp drive (although never say never) and there might never be transporters. Hell there might not even turn out to be aliens. But I believe that there can come a day when there is more decency instead of less. A day when people care more about contributing than about getting rewarded without putting forth any effort.

To me that future is as real as the taste of honey on my tongue. Some days it torments me because it is so far away. Other days it is the only thing that keeps me from taking a gun and blowing my brains out.

And now someone comes along singing the old song. The song of death and hatred and self loathing. The words of the bible are not a balm. They are a poison. They are hate speech. They speak of a hatred of mans potential. They tell us that we are weak and worthless and that if we want any hope at all we'd best grovel. Beg a god who HATES us for his favor.

Well if there is a god, if a extranormal entity did create the human race, and he behaves like that then I'd rather burn an eternity in hell than spend one minute in his heaven.

There will come a day though. You see I have no problem with the idea of persons of faith continuing to exist in the future. Because the people who will exist will be lovers of life and will use their faith to celebrate life, to celebrate human potential and human achievement. In contrast to most now who celebrate death and hate.

By the way when I broke with the faith I was raised up with, I spent quite a bit of time dealing with night terrors. Working through my fear of hell took some doing. Would you like to know what comforted me through those times?

It was a simple country doctor, who when asked by a being pretending to be a god if he doubted that man replied, "I doubt any god who inflicts pain for his own amusement."

I held on as tight as I could to that life raft until the fear became a thing of my past.

It's the reason why I love that movie even as awful as some of it is. It saved my sanity and it saved my soul.

So for those who wish to look for signs of the impending downfall of humanity and look with eager glee to the end times, go right ahead. And then when you are dead and buried those of us who have kept the true faith, the faith in the future will get on with the business of living and working to make it a place worth living in.

Peace and Long Life.
Stoek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 07:04 PM   #63
Irishman
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
Enow wrote: View Post
However, in this reality, Biblical prophesies foretells one third of the earth burning up, and that was just to serve as a catalyst for the NWO and their mark of the beast system.
"Reality" and "biblical prophesies" are mutually exclusive terms.
Perhaps, to you.
Irishman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 08:13 PM   #64
Ryan8bit
Commodore
 
Ryan8bit's Avatar
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Seeing as how there have been many failed prophesies, no, it's not just to him. There is no such thing as people who know the future, sorry. If there were, they should be more specific about the times, places, and people involved, and then it might be worth listening to, and not just coincidence or eager people trying to connect dots. Whenever they are specific, that's when they end up being wrong.
Ryan8bit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 08:18 PM   #65
Misfit Toy
Caped Trek Mod
 
Misfit Toy's Avatar
 
Location: Transporter buffer
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Irishman wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
Enow wrote: View Post
However, in this reality, Biblical prophesies foretells one third of the earth burning up, and that was just to serve as a catalyst for the NWO and their mark of the beast system.
"Reality" and "biblical prophesies" are mutually exclusive terms.
Perhaps, to you.
If not to you, too, then we have a basic disagreement as to the definition of the term "reality".

To keep this Trek related - does the proliferation of the cell phone mean that the depiction of the 60's Trek communicator was a "prophecy"?
__________________
Woof.
Misfit Toy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 08:19 PM   #66
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Just the basic idea of having a small wireless telephone. A wish, not a prophecy.
__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 08:30 PM   #67
Push The Button
Commander
 
Push The Button's Avatar
 
Location: Smithfield, Rhode Island USA
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
Irishman wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
"Reality" and "biblical prophesies" are mutually exclusive terms.
Perhaps, to you.
If not to you, too, then we have a basic disagreement as to the definition of the term "reality".

To keep this Trek related - does the proliferation of the cell phone mean that the depiction of the 60's Trek communicator was a "prophecy"?
Speculation, gifted insight.
__________________
It is the stated position of the Department of Defense and the United States Air Force that a rigidly enforced system of safeguards and controls insure that occurrences such as those depicted in this story cannot happen.
Push The Button is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 08:32 PM   #68
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post

To keep this Trek related - does the proliferation of the cell phone mean that the depiction of the 60's Trek communicator was a "prophecy"?
Probably not...

Many of these writers and producers were active in World War II. The communicator seems to be more of a simplified, more powerful "Walkie Talkie" (handheld transceiver).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walky_talky
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 08:35 PM   #69
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

And yet people help each other every day and the global per capita violence rate is at a historical low.

Yeah, humanity will never be perfect, but that doesn't mean the social problems we face now will never be solved. It just means it will probably take a really long time.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 09:24 PM   #70
J. Allen
Squeaky Clean
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
...

@ J. Allen

Just curious what you tried to suggest saying Jesus was "captor" and "abuser". According to the story he was the one captured and abused - and now I'm confused.

Bob
The faith to which Enow ascribes is one that is untenable if you feel that God is both just and merciful (though one can't really be both). That statement does not apply to all Christians. You can PM me about it if you like. I think the topic's actually getting back on track now, and I'm not inclined to derail it.
__________________
:: :: ::
Visit Brony Kingdom, where all of your wildest dreams will come true.
:: :: ::

-= All fantasy teaches me is that reality sucks. =-
J. Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 10:27 PM   #71
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Stoek wrote: View Post
I Have No Religion But Star Trek.
Thanks for the refreshing honesty. That was exactly a major cover (!) article of Germany's Der Spiegel back in the 1990's (how I wish I had saved this copy!), where the author claimed that Star Trek and Star Wars had taken the form of substitute religions. I always wholeheartedly agreed with the article and don't think it's a bad thing.

Stoek wrote: View Post
I tried, as hard as I could to stay a christian. But the more I read and thought the more I realized that any deity who was "jealous" was not a deity worthy of my respect let alone my worship.
I think I know what you're getting at, Moses 5th book
And I thought and still think exactly how you did.

In contrast The New Testament looks like a contradiction but that's really the only part of the Bible which is a must read, IMHO (it's shorter than a Star Trek novel ).

The way I see it the problem with many Christians seems to be that they sing the songs and go to church, thinking that this is what makes them better people, while in fact it's not the words but their actions that will determine that.

I think one of my favorite actors (Bob Gunton aka Captain Maxwell of the USS Phoenix) in my favorite film The Shawshank Redemption portrayed the ultimate Christian hypocrite.
But I fail to see how the abuse of the gospel has any relevance to the actual content of it. Jesus didn't tell people the things they wanted but needed to hear (and we're still not listening).

"Do to others as you would have them do to you" (Luke 6:31) is possibly the ultimate Christian message - despite attempts of chief atheist Richard Dawkins claiming (in his overrated and mediocre bestseller) this actually to be the first commandment of atheism.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2013, 11:44 PM   #72
iguana_tonante
Admiral
 
iguana_tonante's Avatar
 
Location: Italy, EU
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Why did God kick Adam, Eve and the Snake out of paradise? Whether you interpret the text literal, as a metaphor or an analogy, the decisive essence remains: Because he didn't want to be in the company of people that were unwilling to assume responsibility for their actions, and, worse, had no problem to see somebody else suffer for their mistakes.
Then God must have a hard time living with himself, since by that account he created faulty humans, and then blamed them for his own mistakes.

The original sin story is so full of shit that it's actually sickening. But at least it's honest: in the Bible, knowing is bad. Experimenting is bad. Testing authority is bad. It's a religion designed to keep people oppressed, ignorant, and scared. Thankfully, most Christians don't actually follow it.

1001001 wrote: View Post
So the basic argument here is that the idealistic future of Star Trek will never come to pass because the Bible says otherwise?

Beside, Bill Shatner would totally kick Kirk Cameron's arse.

Irishman wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
Enow wrote: View Post
However, in this reality, Biblical prophesies foretells one third of the earth burning up, and that was just to serve as a catalyst for the NWO and their mark of the beast system.
"Reality" and "biblical prophesies" are mutually exclusive terms.
Perhaps, to you.
The fact that you think "reality" is subjective is a big clue here.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
"Do to others as you would have them do to you" (Luke 6:31) is possibly the ultimate Christian message - despite attempts of chief atheist Richard Dawkins claiming (in his overrated and mediocre bestseller) this actually to be the first commandment of atheism.
Ridiculous conceptions like "chief atheist" aside, that's exactly the point. The Christian message is "treat others as you would like to be treated": the idea of people having different wants or needs is out of question. Your values are everybody's values, and if people don't follow them, then they are actively rejecting your values, instead of simply following their own. Your religion is the solid centre of the universe, and everybody moves in relation to it: towards, against, or around it. You want to be a good Christian, so everybody must want to be a good Christian. I mean, who wouldn't want that, right? Wrong.

The humanist message, on the other hand, is: treat others as they want to be treated. Take an interest in people. Allow for differences. Be kind, but don't be overbearing. Treat them with respect. Don't ever think you know what people want or need. Or, more succinctly, "don't be a douche".
__________________
Scientist. Gentleman. Teacher. Fighter. Lover. Father.
iguana_tonante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21 2013, 12:02 AM   #73
Avon
Fleet Captain
 
Avon's Avatar
 
Location: Space Wales
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

chief atheist isn't a thing. just like being chief of Not believing in The Tooth Fairy isn't a thing.

anyway to make this post vagely trekkified, religion is like that sinister mind-clown from that voyager episode and janeway is the atheism that will slowly cause it to fade from existence. richard dawkins is harry kim.
__________________

Hello to Jason Isaacs!
Avon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21 2013, 12:12 AM   #74
iguana_tonante
Admiral
 
iguana_tonante's Avatar
 
Location: Italy, EU
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

I am terrified to learn who is Neelix.
__________________
Scientist. Gentleman. Teacher. Fighter. Lover. Father.
iguana_tonante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21 2013, 12:12 AM   #75
Avon
Fleet Captain
 
Avon's Avatar
 
Location: Space Wales
Re: The Reality of Star Trek

glenn beck. he shall now be known as gleenbix.
__________________

Hello to Jason Isaacs!
Avon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:09 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.