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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 17 2013, 08:50 PM   #121
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Praetor wrote: View Post
Well, maybe the dark color is indicative of some sort of detection-resistant coating, similar to our modern-day stealth aircraft.
Stealth in space--[near magical] Klingon/Romulan cloaking device aside--would be damn near impossible. Unless you had a way of shielding thermal and EM changes (just off the top of my head, the warp core along has to bleed off a lot of exotic radiation types) in the local area, a ship would stick out like a sore thumb. Granted, distance is your friend, further out you are from the observer, the better the chance that you could bleed into the cosmic background noise. But in the close up fistfights we see as the norm in Trek, forget about it.
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Old August 17 2013, 10:18 PM   #122
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

It's not that difficult, really - the laws of thermodynamics have nothing against directing your thermal emissions. You could always pack your thermal load in a beam or stream that you point away from the enemy, thus presenting an almost absolutely cold face towards him.

Of course, you can also store your emissions aboard, in a sink of some sort, for the duration of the stealth mission. You then dump the "hot potato" when convenient, or even use it as a weapon!

As for the use of paint, one might argue that Kirk's original "starship grey" would be a good compromise between low albedo (for avoiding being seen because of reflected light) and low absorption (for avoiding being seen because of collected and radiated heat). Anything lighter, and local sunlight would reveal you; anything darker, and you become a sponge of energy that you then radiate in the infrared range.

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Old August 18 2013, 02:08 AM   #123
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
Well, maybe the dark color is indicative of some sort of detection-resistant coating, similar to our modern-day stealth aircraft.
Stealth in space--[near magical] Klingon/Romulan cloaking device aside--would be damn near impossible. Unless you had a way of shielding thermal and EM changes (just off the top of my head, the warp core along has to bleed off a lot of exotic radiation types) in the local area, a ship would stick out like a sore thumb. Granted, distance is your friend, further out you are from the observer, the better the chance that you could bleed into the cosmic background noise.
It's not even that. Any given sensor device has a finite resolution for an object at a particular distance away; the farther away that object is, the bigger it would have to be for the sensor to detect it at all. For telescopes, the usual solution is longer exposures -- you point your sensors in a specific direction for several minutes or even hours -- so that small, dim objects would finally become detectable. A sensor device that's designed to sweep the entire sky on a regular basis and detect other objects would have a far more limited range and a more limited resolution.

But in the close up fistfights we see as the norm in Trek, forget about it.
Depends on what you mean by "up close." 500 to 1000km, active scans will probably detect anything big enough to pose a threat. Beyond that you need more powerful radars and a general idea of where to search.
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Old August 18 2013, 03:33 AM   #124
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Up close as what we see on a regular basis in Trek. Stealth tech (cloaks, again, aside) isn't going to get you up close like we've seen regularly in post TWOK Trek. u
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Old August 18 2013, 06:23 AM   #125
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Up close as what we see on a regular basis in Trek. Stealth tech (cloaks, again, aside) isn't going to get you up close like we've seen regularly in post TWOK Trek. u
Actually that's pretty much the case for modern stealth fighters as well: if you're within dogfight range of an enemy aircraft, you're going to be visible to him no matter what you're flying; if he can't physically see you, his radar definitely will.

Same in the more analogous case of submarines: once you get into (or close to) torpedo range you won't have THAT much trouble tracking your target; it's getting into range in the first place -- or knowing that there's anything there to get into range WITH -- that presents the real challenge.

My interpretation if cloaking devices is that they're a brute force method of achieving stealth: the enemy's scanning space, so you jam his sensors in such a way that he can't easily detect your ship unless he gets close enough to detect either your energy displacement or the radiation from your weapon systems. Vengeance's design may be a more passive approach: the enemy's scanning space, so you construct your starship out of a material and with a design that won't fully register on his sensors unless you're looking directly at it and you don't usually know where to look unless it draws attention to itself first.

FYI, there's already precedent for this in Trek: Baran's pirate vessel in "Gambit" is outfitted with EXACTLY this kind of technology, to the point that the Enterprise has difficulty tracking it at a distance and also has trouble scanning the entire of the vessel. The "stealth coating" on the pirate ship is primitive by 24th century standards -- if still marginally effective -- but in the 23rd, it's almost certainly cutting-edge.
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Old August 20 2013, 01:32 AM   #126
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Have we ever seen a black Federation ship? Have they ever deviated from white, blue, and shades of gray?
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Old August 20 2013, 11:10 AM   #127
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Wait a sec, Vengeance IS black (albeit Hollywood black which isn't actually black but lots of shades of very very very dark grey). And I saw a behind the scenes interview there they say it is a stealth ship!
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Old August 20 2013, 05:52 PM   #128
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

It makes sense the Federation KGB wouldn't want to be seen until they blow you up.
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Old August 20 2013, 09:06 PM   #129
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Curiously, though, Kirk had no trouble at all seeing the Vengeance...

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Old August 20 2013, 09:56 PM   #130
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

Ain't it?
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Old August 21 2013, 01:07 AM   #131
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Wait a sec, Vengeance IS black (albeit Hollywood black which isn't actually black but lots of shades of very very very dark grey). And I saw a behind the scenes interview there they say it is a stealth ship!
Hmmmmm.... definitely can't wait for the bluray.
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Old August 22 2013, 04:24 AM   #132
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

The USS Vengeance is fast becoming one of my favourite ST starship designs - ever!
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Old August 24 2013, 12:48 AM   #133
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Have we ever seen a black Federation ship? Have they ever deviated from white, blue, and shades of gray?
The holoship in INS is something of a departure shape-wise, but I'm a little vague on its color, even after looking at pictures of it. It looks different in the water than it does in space. It ain't black, though.
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Old August 24 2013, 03:04 AM   #134
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

I would consider the holoshop "unmarked" though, similar to the Vengeance.
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Old August 24 2013, 08:26 PM   #135
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Re: Dreadnought-Class Production Line (Spoilers?)

From Insurrection. We never really saw much of the holoship exterior.
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