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Old August 19 2013, 06:46 PM   #1
Enow
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The Reality of Star Trek

***Warning!!! It is a depressing topic ***

The reality of Star Trek is just an utopian dream.

Mankind is broken. History reports that no matter how good a system is, if evil men run it, then no good will come of it.

You can have a good king or a good democratic government in spite of how fallible they may be, but if evil men are in power, then evil has a tendency to flourish on all levels if it hasn't been doing so in leading up to putting them in power.

Then you have advanced technology where even now, children have their faces buried in a handheld devises more than they are in face to face communication. Our society seems to use technology to seperate us more, not bringing us closer together. We are content with images and typed instant messages and internet connections and skype, than we are about actually building social skills in face to face encounters.

Now imagine how that will be in the reality of Star Trek. Do not most fans joke now about disappearing from real life into the holodeck, imitating the Barclay Syndrome of STNG? Who would not prefer a controlled environment and programmed friends in a holodeck than deal with others' shortcomings or our own?

And the rate of insecurities in having our personal liberties taken away for some general public peace of mind, makes one wonder if in Star Trek, would our quarters be monitored for changeling activities out of paranoia, a fall out from the Dominion War? And how many "peeping Toms" and "peeping Janes" would be out there, using these means not necessarily for Starfleet security? Who watches the watchers?

Can anyone say that they would not have a holographic version of someone you like or that you know, whethor it be some neighborhood crush or a celebrity, and not pursue that "relationship" in a holdeck rather than face real life?

Wouldn't something like this drive people to be more introverted not just for their own pleasure, but to avoid being exploited imagewise for the pleasures of others?

Wouldn't seeking to serve self and their own gains develop a covetous behaviour that could dominate the person's character and thus alienate themselves from real people and even family members?

Would lust itself prevent Star Trek from ever coming about?

Can real love that seeks the good of the other and not their own personal gain survive in that reality?

And yet, all we have to do is look closer to home.

NASA is shut down because we have too many self serving politicians in the government and not enough rich people that would use their bonusses on Wall Street to pay off the debt to keep the value of the dollar strong.

It is good to dream about Star Trek, but it is too bad that it cannot inspire the nation to love their neighbor as themselves. Indeed, covetous self service can hide behind the Prime Directive of non-interference and let nature take its course.

That means no Star Trek in any future. R.I.P. NASA
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Old August 19 2013, 07:00 PM   #2
Dr. Sevrin
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

You're ignoring that Star Trek, particularly in its later forms, tells us that a Third World War (which nearly destroyed humanity), and first contact with aliens caused the people of Earth to re-evaluate their goals and they joined together to improve themselves and society.
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Old August 19 2013, 07:18 PM   #3
Rusty Nova
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

star trek isn't reality.

also though they had their funding cut, nasa hasn't shut down.
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Old August 19 2013, 09:18 PM   #4
BillJ
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Enow wrote: View Post

Mankind is broken. History reports that no matter how good a system is, if evil men run it, then no good will come of it.
Mankind isn't broken, mankind in growing.


Then you have advanced technology where even now, children have their faces buried in a handheld devises more than they are in face to face communication. Our society seems to use technology to seperate us more, not bringing us closer together. We are content with images and typed instant messages and internet connections and skype, than we are about actually building social skills in face to face encounters.
The only ones who are separated are the ones who allow themselves to be separated. If not technology, they'd simply find another way to separate themselves.


Now imagine how that will be in the reality of Star Trek. Do not most fans joke now about disappearing from real life into the holodeck, imitating the Barclay Syndrome of STNG? Who would not prefer a controlled environment and programmed friends in a holodeck than deal with others' shortcomings or our own?
No. Been married for twenty years here with three kids. No simulated environment can compete.


And the rate of insecurities in having our personal liberties taken away for some general public peace of mind, makes one wonder if in Star Trek, would our quarters be monitored for changeling activities out of paranoia, a fall out from the Dominion War? And how many "peeping Toms" and "peeping Janes" would be out there, using these means not necessarily for Starfleet security? Who watches the watchers?
You're being melodramatic. I'm no more or less free than I was twenty-years ago.


NASA is shut down because we have too many self serving politicians in the government and not enough rich people that would use their bonusses on Wall Street to pay off the debt to keep the value of the dollar strong.

It is good to dream about Star Trek, but it is too bad that it cannot inspire the nation to love their neighbor as themselves. Indeed, covetous self service can hide behind the Prime Directive of non-interference and let nature take its course.

That means no Star Trek in any future. R.I.P. NASA
Seems to me that NASA has two rovers on the surface of Mars right now and other projects.

Will our future look like Star Trek? No. It's going to be something far more wonderful than that.
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Old August 19 2013, 10:03 PM   #5
MacLeod
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Enow wrote: View Post
***Warning!!! It is a depressing topic ***

The reality of Star Trek is just an utopian dream.

Mankind is broken. History reports that no matter how good a system is, if evil men run it, then no good will come of it.

You can have a good king or a good democratic government in spite of how fallible they may be, but if evil men are in power, then evil has a tendency to flourish on all levels if it hasn't been doing so in leading up to putting them in power.
To quote Winston Churchill. "It has been said that Democracy is the worst form of government, except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time". Yes Evil people have come to power but good people somewhere have stood upto them. And even today people can uprise against governments.


Then you have advanced technology where even now, children have their faces buried in a handheld devises more than they are in face to face communication. Our society seems to use technology to seperate us more, not bringing us closer together. We are content with images and typed instant messages and internet connections and skype, than we are about actually building social skills in face to face encounters.
But haven't things like the interent, global communication brought us closer together. Would you really be interacting with people from around the world without it or would you be interacting with perhaps people in the same villiage/town etc.. as you. Go back far enough and you might not see anyone who didn't live in the same villiage/town as yourself (ok maybe the neighbouring towns). And at the end of the day you can switch your phone off, turn your computer off and still do all those things if you so wish.

Now imagine how that will be in the reality of Star Trek. Do not most fans joke now about disappearing from real life into the holodeck, imitating the Barclay Syndrome of STNG? Who would not prefer a controlled environment and programmed friends in a holodeck than deal with others' shortcomings or our own?
You don't need a holodeck to disappear from real life as you put it. Can't we learn to except others for their shortcomings just as they should except ours. Isn;t that in part what ST is about?


And the rate of insecurities in having our personal liberties taken away for some general public peace of mind, makes one wonder if in Star Trek, would our quarters be monitored for changeling activities out of paranoia, a fall out from the Dominion War? And how many "peeping Toms" and "peeping Janes" would be out there, using these means not necessarily for Starfleet security? Who watches the watchers?
That happens today, look at reactions to terrorist attacks.


Can anyone say that they would not have a holographic version of someone you like or that you know, whethor it be some neighborhood crush or a celebrity, and not pursue that "relationship" in a holdeck rather than face real life?

Wouldn't something like this drive people to be more introverted not just for their own pleasure, but to avoid being exploited imagewise for the pleasures of others?
We all have our fantasies and most people can sperate their fantasies from real life.

That means no Star Trek in any future. R.I.P. NASA
NASA, ESA etc.. will one day all disappear to be reokaced with a global space agency.
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Old August 19 2013, 11:16 PM   #6
Enow
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Melakon wrote: View Post
You're ignoring that Star Trek, particularly in its later forms, tells us that a Third World War (which nearly destroyed humanity), and first contact with aliens caused the people of Earth to re-evaluate their goals and they joined together to improve themselves and society.
If the first two world wars didn't do it, what makes you think a third one would? Is it the old saying, "Three time's the charm"? Then I can understand where you are coming from as far as how Star Trek Universe comes into being, but again, reality does paint a different picture.

I somehow believe that in Star Trek Enterprise episode "In the Mirror Darkly, " that would be the mentality of the people of earth at that time when survival, looking out for number one, and having the upper hand in all things like power is how anyone thinks they are going to get ahead.

However, in this reality, Biblical prophesies foretells one third of the earth burning up, and that was just to serve as a catalyst for the NWO and their mark of the beast system. Survival will be all that those people will be thinking about, and yet by adapting that mentality to be united with one cause, Star Trek is still no where in the picture. But there will be a gathering of the armies of the remaining parts of the world to battle the Lord upon His return with the saints at the end of the great tribulation period. ( Which is seven years, starting when they give the command to build the Third Temple in Jerusalem. )

They are already adapting the technology for the mark of the beast system, and that is the biochip to buy and sell in Europe. The biochip is being used elsewhere for medical information like in Mexico and security purposes in companies like GPS tagging. It is not the mark of the beast system yet, until the bio chips becomes the only means to buy & sell in this NWO, thus killing off those that refuse the mark because of the Biblical warning from God that those that take the mark are destined for the lake of fire.

Maybe the Lord will have His people trekking the stars when Satan and death has been done away with forever after they have been cast into the lake of fire. There is nothing in Biblical prophesies about that, but who knows? God only knows.

It's time like these that it wouldn't hurt for fans of Star Trek to do a little research on what direction the world is going and how it is lining up with Biblical prophesies. Maybe they will look as I do in the direction higher than the heavens to Heaven above and the hope of us getting there will not be by a starship, but by the hope in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ as it is His righteousness and His faithfulness that is bringing us there for all those that believe and put their trust in Him.

So... maybe Star Trek may happen when mankind is no longer broken and thus in no need of the Saviour, because they are saved and free to roam the universe for they will never be apart from Him.

Christians can dream after all.

Course, this is in according to my faith on how Star Trek could be, but I just don't see it happening when mankind is not perfect yet to do that trekking through the stars. Murphy's law will more likely come into play than anything else as our fallible nature will hinder us so.
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Old August 19 2013, 11:27 PM   #7
Enow
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

junxon wrote: View Post
star trek isn't reality.
I agree that it isn't, but just commenting that even as an imagination, it could never be under the current state of mankind today.

also though they had their funding cut, nasa hasn't shut down.
Thanks for the info, but I still see NASA as becoming obsolete due to the current status quo.

Science has not found any class M planets out there which is why it should not be a priority at all in face of the debt.

I know they had spotted some "possibilities", but it wasn't enough to send a manned crew. Unless they know for sure, they would be sending a crew there to die. I hope the astronauts would have enough common sense in a situation like that when if the scientists are convinced that it is a class M planet they were going to, then the scientists should come along for the ride. If they chicken out, then the astronauts would know that they are not really sure.

Don't get me wrong. I like NASA, but I just don't see it going anywhere now as I see them becoming obsolete.
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Old August 19 2013, 11:30 PM   #8
BillJ
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Enow wrote: View Post
However, in this reality, Biblical prophesies foretells one third of the earth burning up, and that was just to serve as a catalyst for the NWO and their mark of the beast system.
I'm sorry, but you people have been telling me the world is going to end tomorrow for forty-two years now. I think a really good argument could be made that the world is in the shape it's in because of religion and biblical prophesies.
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Old August 19 2013, 11:31 PM   #9
Mysterion
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Enow wrote: View Post
The reality of Star Trek is just an utopian dream.
Yup. Naive, too.

Mankind is broken. History reports that no matter how good a system is, if evil men run it, then no good will come of it.
Here's some bad news: Mankind isn't broken. There's a reason we're at the top of the food-chain, after all. We're doing what we've always done since the dawn of recorded history (and no doubt way before it started to be recorded), and probably always will (no doubt long after history has stopped being recorded). We are what we are, and it's better for all concerned if we disabuse ourselves of the notion that we're "getting better" and learn to work with what we've got. Let go of the denial and let yourself be human. For better, and often for worse it is who we are. Get used to it, and learn to use it to your advantage.
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Old August 19 2013, 11:32 PM   #10
BillJ
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Enow wrote: View Post
Science has not found any class M planets out there which is why it should not be a priority at all in face of the debt.

I know they had spotted some "possibilities", but it wasn't enough to send a manned crew.
Science isn't your strong point, is it?

We don't have the technological means to send a manned mission to another star system.
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Old August 19 2013, 11:43 PM   #11
Dr. Sevrin
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Enow wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
You're ignoring that Star Trek, particularly in its later forms, tells us that a Third World War (which nearly destroyed humanity), and first contact with aliens caused the people of Earth to re-evaluate their goals and they joined together to improve themselves and society.
If the first two world wars didn't do it, what makes you think a third one would? Is it the old saying, "Three time's the charm"? Then I can understand where you are coming from as far as how Star Trek Universe comes into being, but again, reality does paint a different picture.

I somehow believe that in Star Trek Enterprise episode "In the Mirror Darkly, " that would be the mentality of the people of earth at that time when survival, looking out for number one, and having the upper hand in all things like power is how anyone thinks they are going to get ahead.

However, in this reality, Biblical prophesies foretells one third of the earth burning up, and that was just to serve as a catalyst for the NWO and their mark of the beast system. Survival will be all that those people will be thinking about, and yet by adapting that mentality to be united with one cause, Star Trek is still no where in the picture. But there will be a gathering of the armies of the remaining parts of the world to battle the Lord upon His return with the saints at the end of the great tribulation period. ( Which is seven years, starting when they give the command to build the Third Temple in Jerusalem. )

They are already adapting the technology for the mark of the beast system, and that is the biochip to buy and sell in Europe. The biochip is being used elsewhere for medical information like in Mexico and security purposes in companies like GPS tagging. It is not the mark of the beast system yet, until the bio chips becomes the only means to buy & sell in this NWO, thus killing off those that refuse the mark because of the Biblical warning from God that those that take the mark are destined for the lake of fire.

Maybe the Lord will have His people trekking the stars when Satan and death has been done away with forever after they have been cast into the lake of fire. There is nothing in Biblical prophesies about that, but who knows? God only knows.

It's time like these that it wouldn't hurt for fans of Star Trek to do a little research on what direction the world is going and how it is lining up with Biblical prophesies. Maybe they will look as I do in the direction higher than the heavens to Heaven above and the hope of us getting there will not be by a starship, but by the hope in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ as it is His righteousness and His faithfulness that is bringing us there for all those that believe and put their trust in Him.

So... maybe Star Trek may happen when mankind is no longer broken and thus in no need of the Saviour, because they are saved and free to roam the universe for they will never be apart from Him.

Christians can dream after all.

Course, this is in according to my faith on how Star Trek could be, but I just don't see it happening when mankind is not perfect yet to do that trekking through the stars. Murphy's law will more likely come into play than anything else as our fallible nature will hinder us so.
I'm sorry, but I told you what we have been told in Star Trek about the Third World War. It is not my personal opinion, yet you choose to argue as if it was.

And since you seem to be more concerned with biblical prophecy than the information we're given in Star Trek, I'm not inclined to continue this discussion. You obviously have no idea where I'm coming from at all.

I apologize to everyone else for including the poster's lengthy rebuttal with few words in reply; I generally prefer not to do that.
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Old August 19 2013, 11:45 PM   #12
iguana_tonante
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Enow wrote: View Post
However, in this reality, Biblical prophesies foretells one third of the earth burning up, and that was just to serve as a catalyst for the NWO and their mark of the beast system. Survival will be all that those people will be thinking about, and yet by adapting that mentality to be united with one cause, Star Trek is still no where in the picture. But there will be a gathering of the armies of the remaining parts of the world to battle the Lord upon His return with the saints at the end of the great tribulation period. ( Which is seven years, starting when they give the command to build the Third Temple in Jerusalem. )

They are already adapting the technology for the mark of the beast system, and that is the biochip to buy and sell in Europe. The biochip is being used elsewhere for medical information like in Mexico and security purposes in companies like GPS tagging. It is not the mark of the beast system yet, until the bio chips becomes the only means to buy & sell in this NWO, thus killing off those that refuse the mark because of the Biblical warning from God that those that take the mark are destined for the lake of fire.

Maybe the Lord will have His people trekking the stars when Satan and death has been done away with forever after they have been cast into the lake of fire. There is nothing in Biblical prophesies about that, but who knows? God only knows.

It's time like these that it wouldn't hurt for fans of Star Trek to do a little research on what direction the world is going and how it is lining up with Biblical prophesies. Maybe they will look as I do in the direction higher than the heavens to Heaven above and the hope of us getting there will not be by a starship, but by the hope in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ as it is His righteousness and His faithfulness that is bringing us there for all those that believe and put their trust in Him.

So... maybe Star Trek may happen when mankind is no longer broken and thus in no need of the Saviour, because they are saved and free to roam the universe for they will never be apart from Him.

Christians can dream after all.

Course, this is in according to my faith on how Star Trek could be, but I just don't see it happening when mankind is not perfect yet to do that trekking through the stars.
lol
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Old August 19 2013, 11:48 PM   #13
Enow
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

BillJ wrote: View Post
Enow wrote: View Post

Mankind is broken. History reports that no matter how good a system is, if evil men run it, then no good will come of it.
Mankind isn't broken, mankind in growing.
Well, I disagree. Even though I see what you mean by civilized advancement, but it seems that whatever empire is ruling the age at that time in our historical past, it was susceptible to moral decay from within and eventual collapsed. I see the age of America falling and soon, not just by what I see going on around me but in Biblical prophesies too, but that is only from how I see it with God's help.


Then you have advanced technology where even now, children have their faces buried in a handheld devises more than they are in face to face communication. Our society seems to use technology to seperate us more, not bringing us closer together. We are content with images and typed instant messages and internet connections and skype, than we are about actually building social skills in face to face encounters.
The only ones who are separated are the ones who allow themselves to be separated. If not technology, they'd simply find another way to separate themselves.
I'm not so sure about that. Granted, there are still active outgoing people in our society, but the trend I am seeing that even extroverts are utilizing technology more as an escape rather than a means to maintain social connections.

Now imagine how that will be in the reality of Star Trek. Do not most fans joke now about disappearing from real life into the holodeck, imitating the Barclay Syndrome of STNG? Who would not prefer a controlled environment and programmed friends in a holodeck than deal with others' shortcomings or our own?
No. Been married for twenty years here with three kids. No simulated environment can compete.
Oh, I agree, but that is not the trend I am seeing. That is why I see it worse if the Star Trek Universe ever came into being.


And the rate of insecurities in having our personal liberties taken away for some general public peace of mind, makes one wonder if in Star Trek, would our quarters be monitored for changeling activities out of paranoia, a fall out from the Dominion War? And how many "peeping Toms" and "peeping Janes" would be out there, using these means not necessarily for Starfleet security? Who watches the watchers?
You're being melodramatic. I'm no more or less free than I was twenty-years ago.
I was referring to the Star Trek Universe being worse in taking security measures.

Look at Person of Interest TV show. Look at what is being done by our government now.

Can you really believe that there is no high tech surveilance devise in your television and in any other product which was made in China? Think how the thirteen colonies were "betrayed" by the Cylons and go from there in how it could happen in our reality now.

If China can do it, why not out Big Brother of a government?


NASA is shut down because we have too many self serving politicians in the government and not enough rich people that would use their bonusses on Wall Street to pay off the debt to keep the value of the dollar strong.

It is good to dream about Star Trek, but it is too bad that it cannot inspire the nation to love their neighbor as themselves. Indeed, covetous self service can hide behind the Prime Directive of non-interference and let nature take its course.

That means no Star Trek in any future. R.I.P. NASA
Seems to me that NASA has two rovers on the surface of Mars right now and other projects.

Will our future look like Star Trek? No. It's going to be something far more wonderful than that.
Well, thanks for sharing your optimistic view.
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Old August 20 2013, 12:02 AM   #14
Enow
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Enow wrote: View Post
***Warning!!! It is a depressing topic ***

The reality of Star Trek is just an utopian dream.

Mankind is broken. History reports that no matter how good a system is, if evil men run it, then no good will come of it.

You can have a good king or a good democratic government in spite of how fallible they may be, but if evil men are in power, then evil has a tendency to flourish on all levels if it hasn't been doing so in leading up to putting them in power.
To quote Winston Churchill. "It has been said that Democracy is the worst form of government, except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time". Yes Evil people have come to power but good people somewhere have stood upto them. And even today people can uprise against governments.
Yes. That is true that discontent people can rise, but very little will be the answer to replace those that have been deposed.



Then you have advanced technology where even now, children have their faces buried in a handheld devises more than they are in face to face communication. Our society seems to use technology to seperate us more, not bringing us closer together. We are content with images and typed instant messages and internet connections and skype, than we are about actually building social skills in face to face encounters.
But haven't things like the interent, global communication brought us closer together. Would you really be interacting with people from around the world without it or would you be interacting with perhaps people in the same villiage/town etc.. as you. Go back far enough and you might not see anyone who didn't live in the same villiage/town as yourself (ok maybe the neighbouring towns). And at the end of the day you can switch your phone off, turn your computer off and still do all those things if you so wish.
True.

You don't need a holodeck to disappear from real life as you put it. Can't we learn to except others for their shortcomings just as they should except ours. Isn't that in part what ST is about?
That is the general theme even though "tolerance" is more of the practise than actually accepting others in ST.

And the rate of insecurities in having our personal liberties taken away for some general public peace of mind, makes one wonder if in Star Trek, would our quarters be monitored for changeling activities out of paranoia, a fall out from the Dominion War? And how many "peeping Toms" and "peeping Janes" would be out there, using these means not necessarily for Starfleet security? Who watches the watchers?

That happens today, look at reactions to terrorist attacks.
Yep. That was what I was referring to.


Can anyone say that they would not have a holographic version of someone you like or that you know, whethor it be some neighborhood crush or a celebrity, and not pursue that "relationship" in a holdeck rather than face real life?

Wouldn't something like this drive people to be more introverted not just for their own pleasure, but to avoid being exploited imagewise for the pleasures of others?
We all have our fantasies and most people can sperate their fantasies from real life.
Seperate, yes, but which would they prefer more and how that preference state a trend in how people grow to become?


That means no Star Trek in any future. R.I.P. NASA
NASA, ESA etc.. will one day all disappear to be reokaced with a global space agency.
It could happen, but how it could happen is key. Our present reality says to me that it is not going to happen.
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Old August 20 2013, 12:09 AM   #15
BillJ
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Re: The Reality of Star Trek

Enow wrote: View Post
Can you really believe that there is no high tech surveilance devise in your television and in any other product which was made in China?
No I don't. But if there is and the government wants to watch me scratch my ass and grope the missus, more power to them.


Think how the thirteen colonies were "betrayed" by the Cylons and go from there in how it could happen in our reality now.
I tend to not confuse real life with the stories I see on the magical glowing box.
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