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Old August 19 2013, 12:12 AM   #16
R. Star
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

Well first the EMH was too complicated to copy... then they gained the ability to make a backup module with a fully working version of the program... then immediately lost it, and the ability to make another one as it was again impossible to copy the EMH when he teleported to Jupiter station to treat Zimmerman. So... yeah.
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Old August 19 2013, 11:57 AM   #17
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
I reckon the nature of emergency engineering problems sorta makes a hologram a really bad choice as a helper. Power fluctuations could make the hologram appear/disappear. Imagine having a holographic engineer who shorts out and drops a plasma torch in a warp core or something.
Good point, I still think it wouldn't be a bad idea as a option, especially on ships that have fully equipped holoprojectors anyway, but it'd need some damn strict safety features.

Though the obvious answer is robots. I often wondered why a society that can create Data how there were never anything less than. Like Star Wars' droids. From a real world perspective I realise I just answered my own question, it'd be stealing/not unique. But I'm not looking for C-3PO/R2-D2 main characters. Just in the background to acknowledge it's possible.
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Old August 19 2013, 01:05 PM   #18
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

The holographic doctor was not meant to be used long term. It was made in the hopes of never being used. You would only need it if your own medical team was gone, and in that case you would return to base and get a new team. Voyager couldn't do that so they had to have the EMH running long term, something the program wasn't meant for.

But the program was still quite massive. It combined the knowledge of 47 different doctors, and something like 5,000 different medical procedures. The program was too big for more than one copy.

The cardassian consultant on the other hand was a simple program based on one person's research. It wasn't a backup fully functioning doctor meant to deal with any medical crisis that may arise. It was a talking encyclopedia. A much simpler and much smaller program
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Old August 19 2013, 03:15 PM   #19
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

I know one of thier reasons for not making copies was his program was too big but I never understood why they couldn't copy it after they got the mobile emitter.
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Old August 19 2013, 03:51 PM   #20
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

We touched on some of these questions in the "Why don't the EMH's hands move super FAST?" thread. I'd have thought there could be extra holographic agents, either controlled by the doctor's program (effectively giving him multiple bodies), or more simplistic "nurse" units that aren't sentient but can still handle routine activities.

KaraBear wrote: View Post
The cardassian consultant on the other hand was a simple program based on one person's research. It wasn't a backup fully functioning doctor meant to deal with any medical crisis that may arise. It was a talking encyclopedia. A much simpler and much smaller program
Yeah I don't buy that at all. Nothing of what we see suggests it couldn't handle treating general sick and injured. It has extensive knowledge, an advanced personality, and actively directed studies on that alien creature. It engaged with the doctor in ethical debates.

Yet a program this advanced would, if presented with say a burn victim, just shrug and not be able to help?
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Old August 19 2013, 04:04 PM   #21
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

bbjeg wrote: View Post
I know one of thier reasons for not making copies was his program was too big but I never understood why they couldn't copy it after they got the mobile emitter.
I would think that they didn't want to rely so heavily on the mobile emitter. They've said more than once that they weren't completely sure how it worked since it was so much more advanced than their technology. What if the power ran out on it, or it was damaged somehow. if he was only in the mobile emitter in that case he would be lost.
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Old August 19 2013, 04:04 PM   #22
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

I still wonder about Voyager's entire medical staff being killed when the ship is pulled into the Delta Quadrant. Sickbays are usually mentioned as being in the most heavily protected part of the ship.
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Old August 19 2013, 04:05 PM   #23
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

Stoo wrote: View Post
We touched on some of these questions in the "Why don't the EMH's hands move super FAST?" thread. I'd have thought there could be extra holographic agents, either controlled by the doctor's program (effectively giving him multiple bodies), or more simplistic "nurse" units that aren't sentient but can still handle routine activities.

KaraBear wrote: View Post
The cardassian consultant on the other hand was a simple program based on one person's research. It wasn't a backup fully functioning doctor meant to deal with any medical crisis that may arise. It was a talking encyclopedia. A much simpler and much smaller program
Yeah I don't buy that at all. Nothing of what we see suggests it couldn't handle treating general sick and injured. It has extensive knowledge, an advanced personality, and actively directed studies on that alien creature. It engaged with the doctor in ethical debates.

Yet a program this advanced would, if presented with say a burn victim, just shrug and not be able to help?
maybe he could handle a common cold...but would he be able to perform and advanced procedure on a human? would he be able to come up with a new kind of procedure like the Doctor did on numerous occasions? I would say not since he wasn't programmed for that.
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Old August 19 2013, 04:07 PM   #24
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

Melakon wrote: View Post
I still wonder about Voyager's entire medical staff being killed when the ship is pulled into the Delta Quadrant. Sickbays are usually mentioned as being in the most heavily protected part of the ship.
voyager lost a lot of peole when they got pulled into the Delta Quadrant. And it's a small ship so it wouldn't have that many medical people on board anyway. Also I would guess since they were only going on a two week mission they didn't have a ful medical staff. Probably just one doctor and one nurse.
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Old August 19 2013, 04:22 PM   #25
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

KaraBear wrote: View Post
but would he be able to perform and advanced procedure on a human? would he be able to come up with a new kind of procedure like the Doctor did on numerous occasions? I would say not since he wasn't programmed for that.
I don't see why he couldn't do an advanced procedure. The program is not only knowlegeable but intelligent and active. It doesn't just sit there mindlessly looking up answers from a database.

re: developing new procedures, that's exactly what he helped the doctor to do. Perhaps he couldn't by himself, I dunno.

But it seems pretty clear to me voyager had the capacity to at least create a backup doctor, even if not one with equal R&D capabilities.
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Old August 19 2013, 05:07 PM   #26
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Re: The Doctor (why didn't they just make more?)

Stoo wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
but would he be able to perform and advanced procedure on a human? would he be able to come up with a new kind of procedure like the Doctor did on numerous occasions? I would say not since he wasn't programmed for that.
I don't see why he couldn't do an advanced procedure. The program is not only knowlegeable but intelligent and active. It doesn't just sit there mindlessly looking up answers from a database.

re: developing new procedures, that's exactly what he helped the doctor to do. Perhaps he couldn't by himself, I dunno.

But it seems pretty clear to me voyager had the capacity to at least create a backup doctor, even if not one with equal R&D capabilities.
they probably had the capacity to have a backup program, but not to run two of them at the same time
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