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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 15 2013, 07:48 PM   #751
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
No, it makes it unrelatable to the audience because that isn't how we work as people. Utopia never can happen..as we saw on the original series it is a bad thing (The Apple, Return of the Archons, This Side of Paradise). In the real world they meltdown into dictatorships as the people with the vision wind up killing millions to achieve their version of utopia.

The original series was about bettering the individual, and promoting individual freedom. The TNG universe was a mess it didn't have a consistent message. They could be a bunch of elitist snobs sometimes just look at how racist they were to the Ferengi. Not very accepting of their culture. There were episodes just chock full of moral equivalence which is just a bunch of BS. Then there were episodes when they hit it out of the park - Drumhead, Offspring, Measure of a Man, Inner Light, Family.

Speaking of Family, it is interesting Gene didn't want them to do that episode. I think it was one of the best episodes of the series. It really humanized Picard and showed the effect that being assimilated had on him. I think Ira and RDM did a better job on DS9 in bringing back elements from the original series and running it through their stories. If the original series was wagon train to the stars, then DS9 was an old west town they stopped in.


-Chris
I had no problem relating to Gene's philosophy. It made for some peace of mind for me. I grew up in a house with people bickering all the time, it was nice to see human beings work on bettering that side of themselves and be respectful.

Given the ratings the show had, I think a lot of people might have felt that way. It was a nice escape. Enterprise D was a place I would have loved to live, not so much DS9 or Voyager.
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Old August 16 2013, 05:05 AM   #752
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

BillJ wrote: View Post
So I watched the first disc.

Some thoughts (about the series up to this point):

* The show is exceptionally pretty for something produced in the early-90's. You can tell the folks really put a lot of love into the series.

* Brothers and Remember Me are much better than I remembered (especially the music). Family and Suddenly Human are dull.

* Jonathan Frakes is the weak link in the cast, far more than either Sirtis or Wheaton. His acting style, "80's constipation" factored with the fact that the character does nothing but stand around and state the obvious hurts the show. His character arc was done, I wish they had been brave enough to move the show in another direction.
Agreed on Frakes. I thought after Season 3 his "ladies man" persona no longer worked. Funny because on most shows women weren't allowed to gain weight(see Delta Burke on Designing Women) yet Frakes was allowed to stay on. They should have let him keep his captain rank after Best of Both Worlds, move him to another ship and have Shelby or someone else become the new first officer.
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Old August 16 2013, 06:51 AM   #753
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Reunion freaking rocks!!!

There's always the comment what episodes would work on a certain series, and Reunion is an episode that would be a great DS9 episode. It's interesting how DS9 kind of tied some of the plots to this show together, such as Worf becoming what K'ehleyr was or how Worf killed both Duras and Gowron. There was just so much greatness to this episode, it's probably a top 5 season 4 episode for sure.

The remastering was pretty good too, even though the far distances of the ship look HTV like? When CBS Digital does it, the ship looks dark and menacing and beautiful. When another company does it, the ship looks white a little dull. I know this has probably been talked about adnausium and there are folks here who know more about what things are supposed to look like better than I, but it's just something I've noticed a bit. Still, I haven't seen Reunion in a long time and it's probably my favorite episode in this whole Klingon arc.
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Old August 16 2013, 11:52 AM   #754
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
Reunion freaking rocks!!!

There's always the comment what episodes would work on a certain series, and Reunion is an episode that would be a great DS9 episode. It's interesting how DS9 kind of tied some of the plots to this show together, such as Worf becoming what K'ehleyr was or how Worf killed both Duras and Gowron. There was just so much greatness to this episode, it's probably a top 5 season 4 episode for sure.

The remastering was pretty good too, even though the far distances of the ship look HTV like? When CBS Digital does it, the ship looks dark and menacing and beautiful. When another company does it, the ship looks white a little dull. I know this has probably been talked about adnausium and there are folks here who know more about what things are supposed to look like better than I, but it's just something I've noticed a bit. Still, I haven't seen Reunion in a long time and it's probably my favorite episode in this whole Klingon arc.
I've always loved this story !! When I first watched TNG he was my favourite character on the series I was very happy to embrace that again when DS9 introduced him. Always thought that the way of the warrior was one of the best Klingon story arcs ever.

And the HD remastering of TNG is amazing in some aspects I'm reading the 365 book of Star Trek TNG as I'm watching each episode some really good facts while watching season 4 !!
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Old August 16 2013, 04:53 PM   #755
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Thoughts on Redemption: I broke down and bought the Redemption single disc release. I always felt part two was weaker than part one...and it still is, but I enjoyed the two-parter so much I watched it twice, plus a third time just for the commentary. Somehow, the episode's weak point: The sela arc, doesn't seem quite so glaring anymore. It all really makes sense, even though it's convoluted. What is still a problem is the Romulan withdrawal after Data's detection of the convoy...Starfleet already knew the Roms were there, it was just a question of where, so I don't see why Sela didn't retry somewhere else, after all placing a puppet ruler in the Klingon Empire is no small potatoes. Obviously such a plot would have meant a part three, and STNG was not doing such things back then.

Some fav moments. The Data arc is strong, not just with AI rights, but with any kind of bias, and there are also some command/political questions...the ends justifying the means and so on.

Enjoyed the Federation fleet, but woefully small scale. Still, I recall it gave me a thrill when it came out.

The Klingon civil war was a great arc. I enjoyed the machinations and characters.

Klingon ship action everywhere! Matte paintings on fire!

Not so fav moments: Tachyon grid? In space? It was small enough to chart on a viewscreen so the Roms could have gone right around it.

Romulan shoulder pads. Almost too big to fly around...

Worf captured by two Klingons in about 20 seconds. What the Hell was he drinking?

Sela, the best military tactician since...Saddam Hussein? Awful planning.

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Old August 16 2013, 05:02 PM   #756
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I had another thought about Reunion and how it would be a great episode on DS9. We had three major players of the Klingon empire (At this time) all be murdered, K'empec, K'ehleyr, and Duras (Yeah it was an act of vengeance but it was still murder). Name another supposedly family show that had something like that happen. Actually, other than DS9, I don't think there was another Trek series that had that happen, 3 deaths to major characters.
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Old August 16 2013, 05:33 PM   #757
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
...and Duras (Yeah it was an act of vengeance but it was still murder).
Not murder, that is how Klingons handle their business. That's why they have the "Right of Vengeance" to begin with.

I think the above shows my biggest problem with TNG, especially in comparison to TOS. In TOS, it seemed like humans were out in the galaxy to explore and learn and many times learning things about themselves that didn't look very good when they stepped back and examined their attitudes and actions. In TNG, it seemed like the humans were out in the wilderness to teach the natives about truth, justice and the Federation way.
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Old August 16 2013, 06:18 PM   #758
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

BillJ wrote: View Post
tomalak301 wrote: View Post
...and Duras (Yeah it was an act of vengeance but it was still murder).
Not murder, that is how Klingons handle their business. That's why they have the "Right of Vengeance" to begin with.

I think the above shows my biggest problem with TNG, especially in comparison to TOS. In TOS, it seemed like humans were out in the galaxy to explore and learn and many times learning things about themselves that didn't look very good when they stepped back and examined their attitudes and actions. In TNG, it seemed like the humans were out in the wilderness to teach the natives about truth, justice and the Federation way.
That is a great point. I felt that way as well. TNG they always seemed to be within Federation space, going from planet to planet. They didn't seem to be "exploring strange new worlds" all the time. The Enterprise D never felt like it was out on its own, like the Enterprise in TOS. Even when they were at a starbase it felt like they were out at some frontier fort not a built up space dock.

The other aspect I thought used to drown stories was the tech the tech talk as RDM used to say. It could just suck the drama out of a story. They were pulling particles out of their butts..lol

I think that is one reason why I like DS9 more and more. It went back to more of a TOS attitude.

Picard has made some very bad calls - not infecting the borg in "I borg", airing Starfleet's dirty laundry to the Romulans in Pegasus.


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Old August 16 2013, 07:16 PM   #759
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Scotty wrote: View Post
The roundtable discussion with the art department was a mess. Sure it's nice to listen to these people but what this discussion needed was a moderator to keep the discussion on topic.
while it was nice to hear everyones input on that vam, I totally agree. I kept thinking...shut the hell up about DS9..that's not what we want to hear...
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Old August 18 2013, 04:37 PM   #760
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Borjis wrote: View Post
while it was nice to hear everyones input on that vam, I totally agree. I kept thinking...shut the hell up about DS9..that's not what we want to hear...
Well I didn't care one bit. One thing that sticks out with Season Four on TNG is that it does set up a TON of elements that will be instrumental to Deep Space Nine. O'Brien's character, his marriage to Keiko, the Cardassians, the Trill, even that Ferengi bridge officer in that "Future Imperfect" episode.

Plus, I bet DS9 was a far better show to work on for them. MAN, I can't wait for the potential BluRay!
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Old August 19 2013, 12:22 AM   #761
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

It is funny, what kind of details you now can see, because of the HD: In "Data's Day", when Data is sitting in Troi's office to discuss his help for Keiko and O'Brien, during his sentence "I will not grow old", a fly is crossing the camera.
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Old August 19 2013, 01:36 AM   #762
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Salinga wrote: View Post
It is funny, what kind of details you now can see, because of the HD: In "Data's Day", when Data is sitting in Troi's office to discuss his help for Keiko and O'Brien, during his sentence "I will not grow old", a fly is crossing the camera.
I haven't seen Final Mission on DVD in a long while, but was there so much lens flare on the standard sets? On the blu ray it was almost as if JJ Abrams had directed the episode. Of course they were filming the sun, but seemed more apparent here than on the originals.
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Old August 19 2013, 06:32 PM   #763
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

One of the nice things about these sets is that it's forcing me to revisit some of the episodes I haven't seen in years. Two of those episodes I watched last night, Data's Day and The Loss. I still don't like The Loss mainly because I don't like Sirtis' acting, but Data's Day is really charming.

I do have probably my first disappointment about this set though. One of the things I was most looking forward to seeing was the Cosmic String from The Loss. Truthfully, it looked a lot more bland than what I would have liked. I understand maybe it was how it was filmed and Modern Video is better than HTV, but I couldn't help but think that if CBS Digital did that effect, we would have seen something along the lines of the Crystaline Entity from season 1. Kind of wish they had remastered that effect better.
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Old August 19 2013, 08:47 PM   #764
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
I do have probably my first disappointment about this set though. One of the things I was most looking forward to seeing was the Cosmic String from The Loss. Truthfully, it looked a lot more bland than what I would have liked. I understand maybe it was how it was filmed and Modern Video is better than HTV, but I couldn't help but think that if CBS Digital did that effect, we would have seen something along the lines of the Crystaline Entity from season 1. Kind of wish they had remastered that effect better.
Since, as you say, the cosmic string effect in this episode is comprised of filmed elements (shooting liquid nitrogen against black velvet, I believe -- that trick was used a lot for space anomalies), I'm not sure it would have ended up looking much different in CBS-D hands, since their mantra is that if it exists on film, they use it. The crystalline entity had to be recreated, of course, because there was no high-quality source... the original CGI only existed on standard definition analog tape and simply didn't hold up in resolution or even aesthetically. It sort of demanded to be re-done.
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Old August 20 2013, 12:35 AM   #765
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

After watching "The Wounded" this afternoon, I think I know what I want in a new Star Trek movie, like Star Trek III from JJ Abrams. I want a real first contact with the Cardassians. There is just so much you can do that we haven't seen, such as the whole Cetlik 3 massacre, first contact, how the federation and cardassians waged war, that I always felt it was a missed opportunity that we never really got any backstory on how the Federation and Cardassia first met. I don't think even in DS9 we know and that would be very interesting.

As for the episode, man another episode that could easily have been in DS9. Great stuff. Oh, and while DS9 has it's "It's easy to be a saint in Paradise", one of the TNG's most coolest quotes came after O'Brian talked about the Cetlik three massacre: "I don't hate you Cardassian, I hate what I became because of you".
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