RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,614
Posts: 5,426,110
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 380
Newest member: 8 of 9

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old August 18 2013, 07:11 PM   #151
stcanada29
Lieutenant
 
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

BillJ wrote: View Post
stcanada29 wrote: View Post

But it does seem to me that you are taking things to a horrible extreme.
It's a horrible extreme to want to be asked before you appropriate my work for a project you're doing? We seem to have different definitions of the word 'extreme'.

Why didn't they simply find their own photos and do their own restoration work?
It is an extreme to suggest that one person restoring a photo he doesn't own; which is part of the public domain - gives him ownership rights and removes that photo from the public domain. Why are you giving all the credit to Startrekhistory for their restoration activities and none to the publisher for their restoration work? B&W photos need alot of manipulation to prepare for print -- it's a different environment than color.
stcanada29 is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:13 PM   #152
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

I wouldn't jump to any conclusion there, BillJ, although several Amazon reviews appear to come from people with a relationship to the publisher. I mean, goodness, Gurian (who has a photo and a bio on the publisher's site!) posted a review there and has a glowing blurb about the book posted at the publisher's site, too.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:16 PM   #153
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

stcanada29 wrote: View Post
It is an extreme to suggest that one person restoring a photo he doesn't own; which is part of the public domain - gives him ownership rights and removes that photo from the public domain.
I don't think anyone has suggested that.

It doesn't help that all the photos in question (at least, up to page 222) all carry the caption "Courtesy of Gurian" with no mention of Star Trek History or Birdofthegalaxy.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.

Last edited by T'Bonz; January 13 2014 at 11:58 PM.
Harvey is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:22 PM   #154
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

stcanada29 wrote: View Post

It is an extreme to suggest that one person restoring a photo he doesn't own; which is part of the public domain - gives him ownership rights and removes that photo from the public domain. Why are you giving all the credit to Startrekhistory for their restoration activities and none to the publisher for their restoration work? B&W photos need alot of manipulation to prepare for print -- it's a different environment than color.
You're still dancing around the main issue. Which is the fact that whoever published this book showed no common courtesy towards people who restored the photos. They could've gotten original photos and done the entire restoration themselves, but didn't.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:28 PM   #155
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

So restoring these old scratched and faded clips and making them available for free to people is one thing, but converting some similar images (or perhaps even these very same restored images) to black and white suddenly makes them monitizeable?

Whatever the intent or justification was in including these images in the book, it seems to have become more trouble than it was worth.

stcanada29 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
stcanada29 wrote: View Post

But it does seem to me that you are taking things to a horrible extreme.
It's a horrible extreme to want to be asked before you appropriate my work for a project you're doing? We seem to have different definitions of the word 'extreme'.

Why didn't they simply find their own photos and do their own restoration work?
It is an extreme to suggest that one person restoring a photo he doesn't own; which is part of the public domain - gives him ownership rights and removes that photo from the public domain. Why are you giving all the credit to Startrekhistory for their restoration activities and none to the publisher for their restoration work? B&W photos need alot of manipulation to prepare for print -- it's a different environment than color.
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:33 PM   #156
stcanada29
Lieutenant
 
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

BillJ wrote: View Post
stcanada29 wrote: View Post

It is an extreme to suggest that one person restoring a photo he doesn't own; which is part of the public domain - gives him ownership rights and removes that photo from the public domain. Why are you giving all the credit to Startrekhistory for their restoration activities and none to the publisher for their restoration work? B&W photos need alot of manipulation to prepare for print -- it's a different environment than color.
You're still dancing around the main issue. Which is the fact that whoever published this book showed no common courtesy towards people who restored the photos. They could've gotten original photos and done the entire restoration themselves, but didn't.
In the Amazon review, Gurian says he posted a photo somewhere showing some identical clips or photos to those on startrekhistory. And you're still dancing around the issue, dude, that restoring a photo gives NO rights to the photo. You're acting like it gives total ownership to the photo. I believe these are all public domain = free to everyone to republish.
stcanada29 is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:35 PM   #157
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

You're still arguing against a claim no one is, in fact, making.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:36 PM   #158
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

stcanada29 wrote: View Post

In the Amazon review, Gurian says he posted a photo somewhere showing some identical clips or photos to those on startrekhistory. And you're still dancing around the issue, dude, that restoring a photo gives NO rights to the photo. You're acting like it gives total ownership to the photo. I believe these are all public domain = free to everyone to repost.
So it would be cool if folks take chunks of the book and resell them because most of the information is available to the public to begin with?
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:42 PM   #159
stcanada29
Lieutenant
 
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Harvey wrote: View Post
You're still arguing against a claim no one is, in fact, making.
People are condemning the publisher and suggesting they illegally reprinted those pics, or needed to get permission, and suggested startrekhistory owns those images ... which others here and I believe is simply not true. Since these are public domain images.
stcanada29 is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:44 PM   #160
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

I think that StarTrekHistory.com does not, in fact, assert that restoring the images has given them the right to receive income based on that restoration; they seem to have done the exact opposite--refraining from deriving any income from those images.

Converting the images to black and white doesn't suddenly grant that "restorer" the right to make money from the images, does it?

The publisher must be kicking himself now.


stcanada29 wrote: View Post
You're still dancing around the issue, dude, that restoring a photo gives NO rights to the photo. You're acting like it gives total ownership to the photo. I believe these are all public domain = free to everyone to repost.
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:44 PM   #161
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

stcanada29 wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
You're still arguing against a claim no one is, in fact, making.
People are condemning the publisher and suggesting they illegally reprinted those pics, or needed to get permission, and suggested startrekhistory owns those images ... which others here and I believe is simply not true. Since these are public domain images.
Did they request permission to use the restored photos, even as a courtesy?
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:52 PM   #162
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

No, I'm suggesting that the restoration work that Star Trek History did shouldn't have been used without getting permission. Ethically, they sure shouldn't have been used while giving credit to another source.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:52 PM   #163
stcanada29
Lieutenant
 
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
I think that StarTrekHistory.com does not, in fact, assert that restoring the images has given them the right to receive income based on that restoration; they seem to have done the exact opposite--refraining from deriving any income from those images.

Converting the images to black and white doesn't suddenly grant that "restorer" the right to make money from the images, does it?


stcanada29 wrote: View Post
You're still dancing around the issue, dude, that restoring a photo gives NO rights to the photo. You're acting like it gives total ownership to the photo. I believe these are all public domain = free to everyone to repost.
Everyone has the right to republish those images on the web or in books. That the definition of material that is not legally copyrighted by anyone but is part of the Public Domain.

And being part of the Public Domain (non-copyrighted) is not the same as being available to the public. I think the written text in the book is a new creation that can be copyrighted by the author ... but those photos can be reused by anyone.

startrekhistory, or perhaps others here, seem to be asserting that restoring public domain images gives them the right to prevent others from publishing copies of those public domain images - which is not true, IMO.

Peace and Love, Dudes. I guess we'll just disagree on this!
stcanada29 is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:57 PM   #164
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Uh, no. You're either deliberately obfuscating the issue or just not getting it.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline  
Old August 18 2013, 07:57 PM   #165
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

If I was someone on the fence, the attitude of stcanada29 would be enough to make me not buy the book.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
book, tos

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.