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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 16 2013, 10:06 PM   #31
Gojira
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

I actually like the idea. Tomorrow is Yesterday is one of my all time favorite episodes. I liked Captain Christopher and I think it would have been an interesting idea to have him as a regular and watch him try to assimilate into the 23rd century.
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Old August 16 2013, 10:12 PM   #32
Nerys Myk
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

No interested in seeing the Adventures of Captain Christopher in the 23rd Century.
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Old August 16 2013, 10:52 PM   #33
Gojira
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
No interested in seeing the Adventures of Captain Christopher in the 23rd Century.
I think it would have been interesting to have a character adjust to the 23rd century. That character could have been the mouth piece for his times and he could have spoken about overcoming the prejudices and the problems they had in the 60s while he adjusted to the 23rd century.

For example, TOS often had a bias against computers in their shows. At the time computers were new and people were fraid that computers would replace people. That sentiment is is expressed in quite a few episodes. What is strange is even the Trek Characters like Kirk and McCoy are leary of computers. It would have made more sense to have a character like Cpt. Christopher be the mouth of fear of computers than Kirk and McCoy.

That is just one example where I think a contemporary charcater like Christopher could have worked.
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Old August 16 2013, 11:11 PM   #34
Nerys Myk
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

Gojira wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
No interested in seeing the Adventures of Captain Christopher in the 23rd Century.
I think it would have been interesting to have a character adjust to the 23rd century. That character could have been the mouth piece for his times and he could have spoken about overcoming the prejudices and the problems they had in the 60s while he adjusted to the 23rd century.

For example, TOS often had a bias against computers in their shows. At the time computers were new and people were fraid that computers would replace people. That sentiment is is expressed in quite a few episodes. What is strange is even the Trek Characters like Kirk and McCoy are leary of computers. It would have made more sense to have a character like Cpt. Christopher be the mouth of fear of computers than Kirk and McCoy.

That is just one example where I think a contemporary charcater like Christopher could have worked.
I don't think its a bias against computers. They use them everyday. They do seem to object to machines becoming "benevolent dictators". McCoy talks a good game but he's uses them almost as much as Spock.

Christopher would probably be amazed by 23rd Century computers. Many of their uses are behind the scene anyway.

TOS isn't an arc show. I doubt Christopher's fish out of water position would be used for anything more than a joke or two.
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Old August 16 2013, 11:11 PM   #35
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

Gojira wrote: View Post
. . .At the time computers were new and people were fraid that computers would replace people.
Speaking as someone who was alive during that time, they were right.
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Old August 16 2013, 11:23 PM   #36
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

TOS is profoundly ambivalent about technology and computers in particular. Yeah, they have all their shiny futuristic toys, but a certain unease keeps creeping in. See also: "Court-Martial," "The Ultimate Computer," "The Changeling," "A Taste of Armageddon," and all those episodes where Kirk defeats an evil god-like computer.

And it's not just McCoy who voices these concerns. You also have Samuel Cogley orating about man vs. machine, the space hippies in "Way To Eden," and even Lenore Karidian complaining that technology has made people more like machines. (Okay, she's insane, but . . . .)

People were definitely worried about these issues back then. Remember HAL in 2001? And Colossus: The Forbin Project? And Demon Seed?
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Old August 16 2013, 11:30 PM   #37
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Kirk, Spock, and other Starfleet officers presumably had diplomatic courses at the Academy. They're authorized to negotiate with other worlds on behalf of the Federation. Any diplomatic training Christopher has is 300 years out of date.
Exactly. Kirk is trained in diplomacy. Part of his job is "seeking out new life and new civilizations". Spock is a scientist. His job is looking into the unknown and finding answers. Christopher is a fighter pilot. His job is to fly an airplane and shoot stuff. How much "diplomatic training" would a USAF officer from the 60s get? He's not even based overseas. What's that line from Full Metal Jacket? "I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them."
[From Errand of Mercy]
AYELBORNE: It is our way of life, Captain.
KIRK: That's the first thing that would be lost! Excuse me, gentlemen. I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth.

[From The Mark of Gideon]
SPOCK: We must acknowledge once and for all that the purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis.
MCCOY: Well, what are we waiting for, Mister Spock? We're not diplomats.
SPOCK: We are representatives of the Federation, Doctor.
MCCOY: That doesn't mean we have behave like children and listen to some fool lecture by a diplomat!
SPOCK: Unfortunately, diplomacy is the only channel available to us at the moment. The planet is shielded from our sensors, therefore we cannot scan it. Therefore we are unable to select co-ordinates. They must be provided by Gideon.
CHEKOV: We should never have agreed to such restrictions.
SPOCK: We did not, Mister Chekov. The Federation did. Lieutenant Uhura.
UHURA: Yes, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: Contact Starfleet immediately. Explain our problem. Request permission to use every means at our disposal to press the search for Captain Kirk

From these two excerpts, it seems that Kirk and Spock either did not receive as much diplomatic training as you suggest, or they didn't really care too much about it. In both of these cases Kirk and Spock respectively are frustrated by diplomacy and would prefer a more aggressive strategy. Also, USAF Fighter Pilots do more than just shoot stuff, their training (both physical and intellectual) is very demanding and they are required to use their own judgment at times.
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Old August 16 2013, 11:59 PM   #38
Gojira
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
TOS is profoundly ambivalent about technology and computers in particular. Yeah, they have all their shiny futuristic toys, but a certain unease keeps creeping in. See also: "Court-Martial," "The Ultimate Computer," "The Changeling," "A Taste of Armageddon," and all those episodes where Kirk defeats an evil god-like computer.

And it's not just McCoy who voices these concerns. You also have Samuel Cogley orating about man vs. machine, the space hippies in "Way To Eden," and even Lenore Karidian complaining that technology has made people more like machines. (Okay, she's insane, but . . . .)

People were definitely worried about these issues back then. Remember HAL in 2001? And Colossus: The Forbin Project? And Demon Seed?
Now, less than 50 years after TOS computers are a way of life for the majority of people. In many ways TOS is a time capsule of how people were leary and concerned about the growth of technology, specifically computers, in the mid to late 60s.
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Old August 17 2013, 02:13 AM   #39
Nerys Myk
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

Big Daddy wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Kirk, Spock, and other Starfleet officers presumably had diplomatic courses at the Academy. They're authorized to negotiate with other worlds on behalf of the Federation. Any diplomatic training Christopher has is 300 years out of date.
Exactly. Kirk is trained in diplomacy. Part of his job is "seeking out new life and new civilizations". Spock is a scientist. His job is looking into the unknown and finding answers. Christopher is a fighter pilot. His job is to fly an airplane and shoot stuff. How much "diplomatic training" would a USAF officer from the 60s get? He's not even based overseas. What's that line from Full Metal Jacket? "I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them."
[From Errand of Mercy]
AYELBORNE: It is our way of life, Captain.
KIRK: That's the first thing that would be lost! Excuse me, gentlemen. I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth.

[From The Mark of Gideon]
SPOCK: We must acknowledge once and for all that the purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis.
MCCOY: Well, what are we waiting for, Mister Spock? We're not diplomats.
SPOCK: We are representatives of the Federation, Doctor.
MCCOY: That doesn't mean we have behave like children and listen to some fool lecture by a diplomat!
SPOCK: Unfortunately, diplomacy is the only channel available to us at the moment. The planet is shielded from our sensors, therefore we cannot scan it. Therefore we are unable to select co-ordinates. They must be provided by Gideon.
CHEKOV: We should never have agreed to such restrictions.
SPOCK: We did not, Mister Chekov. The Federation did. Lieutenant Uhura.
UHURA: Yes, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: Contact Starfleet immediately. Explain our problem. Request permission to use every means at our disposal to press the search for Captain Kirk

From these two excerpts, it seems that Kirk and Spock either did not receive as much diplomatic training as you suggest, or they didn't really care too much about it. In both of these cases Kirk and Spock respectively are frustrated by diplomacy and would prefer a more aggressive strategy. Also, USAF Fighter Pilots do more than just shoot stuff, their training (both physical and intellectual) is very demanding and they are required to use their own judgment at times.
A Starship Captain wears many hats:

Whom Gods Destroy wrote:
GARTH: Upon the firmest of foundations, Mister Spock. Enlightened self interest. You, Captain, are second only to me as the finest military commander in the galaxy.
KIRK: That's very flattering. I am primarily an explorer now, Captain Garth.
Mirror,Mirror wrote:
(Kirk, Scott, McCoy and Uhura are with the local leader, when lightning threatens.)
THARN: We believe what you say, Captain Kirk, but our position has not altered. The Halkan Council cannot permit your Federation to mine dilithium crystals on our planet.
KIRK: We have shown the council historical proof that our missions are peaceful.
THARN: We accept that your Federation is benevolent at present, but the future is always in question. Our dilithium crystals represent awesome power. Wrongful use of that power, even to the extent of the taking of one life, would violate our history of total peace. To prevent that, we would die, Captain. As a race, if necessary.
KIRK: I admire your ethics and hope to prove ours. Kirk to Enterprise.
SPOCK [OC]: Spock here.
KIRK: Report on magnetic storm, Mister Spock.
I've no doubt a fighter pilot is highly trained, intelligent and skilled individual, but I doubt that would render them a valuable asset to Starfleet. Christopher would be shipped to the nearest Starbase and from there to Earth, where he would be acclimated to the 23rd Century and retrained.
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Old August 19 2013, 04:04 AM   #40
Greg Cox
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

I don't know. It might be fun to have a contemporary character on a Trek show someday, just to provide a different perspective.

I still wish Rain Robinson had joined Voyager as a regular, as was apparently considered. Sarah Silverman would have spiced things up a bit.
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Old August 19 2013, 06:00 AM   #41
Melakon
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

I think the danger of a John Christopher or Rain Robinson type character on the ship is it could easily become some type of Mary Sue character. Some people already complain about that with some of the 24th century regular characters.
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Old August 22 2013, 04:26 AM   #42
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

I've no doubt a fighter pilot is highly trained, intelligent and skilled individual, but I doubt that would render them a valuable asset to Starfleet. Christopher would be shipped to the nearest Starbase and from there to Earth, where he would be acclimated to the 23rd Century and retrained.[/QUOTE]

I dunno. Starfleet would probably call Kirk on the carpet and make him responsible for Christopher, essentially telling him, you brought him here. Take him along and get him home...soon.
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Old August 22 2013, 04:32 AM   #43
Nerys Myk
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

Control Voice wrote:
nerys myk wrote: View Post
I've no doubt a fighter pilot is highly trained, intelligent and skilled individual, but I doubt that would render them a valuable asset to Starfleet. Christopher would be shipped to the nearest Starbase and from there to Earth, where he would be acclimated to the 23rd Century and retrained.
I dunno. Starfleet would probably call Kirk on the carpet and make him responsible for Christopher, essentially telling him, you brought him here. Take him along and get him home...soon.
I don't see that happening. It's not like he found a puppy.
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Old August 22 2013, 04:54 AM   #44
Control Voice
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

You're quite correct, thinking with a 90s sensibility, however back in the 60s, my scenario is what probably would happen. To make this happen in the modern Trek era, Christopher would probably be looked down upon by the command crew until he earned their respect and assigned a personal security guard, who would be involved in any adventure he might be involved in.
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Old August 23 2013, 12:41 AM   #45
Nerys Myk
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Re: John Christopher a Regular?

No, not even in the 60s, would Christopher become part of the crew. Not in-universe or out.
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