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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 16 2013, 09:18 PM   #91
trevanian
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

time travel via close flyby of gravity well has been a 'hard sf' staple going back to Van Vogt's FAR CENTAURUS, so yeah, I can buy off on the slingshot thing for a TREK movie just fine.

Building starships on the ground ... no, never, and after years of posting and refuting and this and that I'm through arguing about it, because it is too much like dealing with flat-earthers. Have fun w/ your magic box tech.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:20 PM   #92
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

GameOn wrote: View Post
Without this Star Trek ceases to be science fiction and becomes space fantasy with space magic.
It's been space fantasy with space magic for a really long time now. When I want actual science fiction, I'll go read Baxter or Clarke.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:24 PM   #93
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

trevanian wrote: View Post
Building starships on the ground ... no, never, and after years of posting and refuting and this and that I'm through arguing about it, because it is too much like dealing with flat-earthers. Have fun w/ your magic box tech.


So you think that a society that is advanced as what we see in Trek is bound to build spacecraft in orbit even though they can control both gravity and matter transformation?

Seems to me that you've decided that there is only one way that a certain feat can be accomplished.

I've admitted that I can see it happening both ways depending on how you view the process. Seems the only "flat-earther" here is you.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:27 PM   #94
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

GameOn wrote: View Post
Without this Star Trek ceases to be science fiction and becomes space fantasy with space magic.
As when Gary Mitchell gained god-like powers by passing through the "Galactic Barrier" way back in the second pilot?

Nope, no space magic there!

Star Trek has never been hard-sf, and that's never hurt it one bit.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:29 PM   #95
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
GameOn wrote: View Post
Without this Star Trek ceases to be science fiction and becomes space fantasy with space magic.
As when Gary Mitchell gained god-like powers by passing through the "Galactic Barrier" way back in the second pilot?

Nope, no space magic there!

Star Trek has never been hard-sf, and that's never hurt it one bit.
Heretic!
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Old August 16 2013, 09:31 PM   #96
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

GameOn wrote: View Post
PIKER wrote: View Post
Not necessarily, there are flaws in each film - especially TFF, but the most recent seem particularly egregious. I had hoped our progress in scientific understanding would be reflected in the newer movies. One example: it's perfectly logical to expect that in the future any massive vessels would be constructed in space. A movie made in the 70's respected its audience enough to incorporate this concept. So I was absolutely flabbergasted that a 21st-century Trek movie would show the Enterprise being constructed amidst the cornfields of Iowa! Ugh!!!
I thought that was pretty dumb especially since we've seen ships being build in space already but it was way down on the long list of problems I had. My biggest being the supernova that threatens the galaxy and black holes that sends you back in time or destroy stuff depending on what the plot requires.
Science says they can do both. In TOS the Enterprise was tossed into the past while trying to escape a "black star".
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Old August 16 2013, 09:32 PM   #97
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Star Trek has never been hard-sf, and that's never hurt it one bit.
It's never been Harry Potter in space either.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:35 PM   #98
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

GameOn wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Star Trek has never been hard-sf, and that's never hurt it one bit.
It's never been Harry Potter in space either.
It has been from time to time.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:37 PM   #99
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

GameOn wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Star Trek has never been hard-sf, and that's never hurt it one bit.
It's never been Harry Potter in space either.
Of course it has. The number of God like beings and psi-powered aliens encountered alone pushes it into Harry Potter territory. Toss in miracle tech like transporters you're a wave of a wand away.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:45 PM   #100
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
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I can proudly say no one here agrees with this list.
So you speak for everyone on this forum?

I was going to say something like . . . I can proudly say you're wrong!.
But after thinking about it, maybe there's something to that. Would anyone on the forum agree, 100%, with the list? Probably not; I for one think Star Trek (2009) is ranked too high, and The Final Frontier is way too low. But to each their own and my opinion is worth nothing to anybody but me - my only problem is, like you, the poster claims to speak for all.
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Old August 16 2013, 10:28 PM   #101
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

trevanian wrote: View Post
Building starships on the ground ... no, never, and after years of posting and refuting and this and that I'm through arguing about it, because it is too much like dealing with flat-earthers. Have fun w/ your magic box tech.
So the ship that can break the light-speed barrier with the use of magic crystals can't be built on the ground? It has a matter/energy transportation device, but cannot be built on a planet?

I guess everyone's got their line. This one just seems a bit unrealistic in the unrealistic world of Trek.
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Old August 16 2013, 10:54 PM   #102
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

GameOn wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Star Trek has never been hard-sf, and that's never hurt it one bit.
It's never been Harry Potter in space either.
Apollo, Trelane, Charlie X, and Q beg to differ . . .
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Old August 16 2013, 11:07 PM   #103
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
GameOn wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Star Trek has never been hard-sf, and that's never hurt it one bit.
It's never been Harry Potter in space either.
Apollo, Trelane, Charlie X, and Q beg to differ . . .
My comments were in regards to the science and technology of Star Trek being presented as semi-plausible and not the god like or super advanced aliens of the week.
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Old August 16 2013, 11:13 PM   #104
Greg Cox
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

Opus wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
Building starships on the ground ... no, never, and after years of posting and refuting and this and that I'm through arguing about it, because it is too much like dealing with flat-earthers. Have fun w/ your magic box tech.
So the ship that can break the light-speed barrier with the use of magic crystals can't be built on the ground? It has a matter/energy transportation device, but cannot be built on a planet?

I guess everyone's got their line. This one just seems a bit unrealistic in the unrealistic world of Trek.
That can indeed be a judgment call.

True story. When I was writing my Gary Seven books, I originally included a scene in which Roberta Lincoln learned how to turn into cat like Isis, but my editor thought that was going a bit too far.

Probably the right call.
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Old August 16 2013, 11:15 PM   #105
Nerys Myk
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

GameOn wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
GameOn wrote: View Post
It's never been Harry Potter in space either.
Apollo, Trelane, Charlie X, and Q beg to differ . . .
My comments were in regards to the science and technology of Star Trek being presented as semi-plausible and not the god like or super advanced aliens of the week.
Warp drive, transporters and interbreeding aliens are far from even semi-plausible.
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The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
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