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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 16 2013, 03:09 PM   #76
northstar
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

I pretty much agree with the Con-List. Very hard to decide wether STID or TFF is the worst Star Trek movie.

1. TWOK
2. TMP
3. TSFS
4. TVH
5. TUC
6. First Contact
7. Star Trek (2009)
8. Nemesis
9. Generations
10. Insurrection
11. STID
12. TFF
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Old August 16 2013, 04:55 PM   #77
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

After much reflection, I've drawn up my personal list.

Above average films - strengths:
1. TUC - characterization/plot (c/p)
2. TWOK - c/p
3. TMP - starship porn/music/science!
4. TSFS - c/p
5. TVH - c/p
6. First Contact - c/p

Below average films - weaknesses:
7. TFF - bad fx/science/humor but major bonus pts for soundtrack & "pain" scene
8. Generations - plot/Kirk's death
9. Insurrection - plot
10. Star Trek (2009) - bad science/Vulcan destruction/Kirk's leapfrog promotion
11. Nemesis - characterization/plot
12. STID - characterization/plot/bad science/Khan?!?

Honorable Mention (not ranked):
Galaxy Quest

Note: I am not a JJ hater, it just so happens that I find massive flaws in his films as well as the TNG films with the exception of First Contact. I truly hope he can turn the page with next film and produce something more original, thought-provoking, and entertaining.
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Old August 16 2013, 05:07 PM   #78
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

It's kind of surprising that with several large scale grading and review polls on STID that this small news item has been a story over the web. The much larger sample polls show STID to be a viewer favorite and major critical success. It's still the best reviewed, best graded major release of the year. A couple of hundred con goers making the news really doesn't change that.

My opinion:

1. Star Trek: Into Darkness *****
2. Star Trek 09*****
3. Wrath of Khan*****
4. First Contact****
5. Voyage Home****
6. Nemesis****
7. STMMP-DE***1/2
8. Search for Spock***1/2
9. Undiscovered Country***
10. Insurrection***
11. Generations**
12. Final frontier1/2

My capsule thoughts on the movies:

STID-Bad Robot expands on the mythos, develops the characters and tells a more relevant story, with the biggest scale ST movie yet. The FX are tangibly real, the action kinetic and it feels like ST as an adventure series it started out to be.

1. Star Trek 09-Credit due for a new producer who made ST feel like STagain. Adventure, scale, cachet, all missing from previous Trek movies. If all that's not enough, it's writing brought some small development to characters that basically didn't change much in the original series, executed well enough to be nominated for a Hugo, Nebula, Writers Guild Award, a trifecta not accomplished by any other Trek movie.

A home run, a bullseye, direct hit!! A smashing blockbuster success! The most cinematic, the most dense, most energetic, fully realized, rich, fun, rousing, professionally made MOVIE of all of ST. Rewatchable with almost every sequence creating a lasting impression. The best "teaser", best beginning credit sequences, the best Special FX, the best sound, best ending credits! Grade: ***** of 5 stars

2. Wrath of Khan-The best movie for 27 years until 2009! Good characterization, and a movie that makes up for an underwritten villain role with terrific performances by everyone concerned. Themes about aging, family, new life-hope, with a good dose of action. Still contains SF movie's best battle scene. *****

3. First Contact-Admittedly, not a perfect film, and not the best Borg story by a long shot but it also offered a multi-leveled formula for success: ST history, time-travel, almost elemental enemies, and something rarely seen..a personal vendetta for Picard. ****

4. Voyage Home-Not completely logical but a fun movie with no significant strikes against it. Expanded the ST universe a bit, with a look at Starfleet and the UFP. Did I mention fun? ****

5. Nemesis-Again, not a perfect movie, one I'd have re-written myself somewhat, but it's a major improvement in scale and pace over the previous STNG movie as well as the latter TOS ones. ****

6. STMMP-DE-Ok here is where I change my mind occasionally..sometimes STIII feels more statisfying as a movie, but the new DE is an improvement over the original...its a tighter movie. Hard to beat for FX and music (both nominated for Oscars)the story feels slim, but the philosophy behind it wins the day. ***1/2

7. STIII-So STTMP improves upon TOS with a story that takes AI seriously, and tried to include Spock in that as a personal link...STIII again uses Spock but in a story whose philosophy is bizarre and very un-Treklike...postulating souls that come back to life...must have had theists as well as non-theists perplexed in it's day (I was 14 and just knew I liked Spock being alive). There are good moments and ILM does a great job on a small budget (one that used fewer FX than many made-for-tv movies, as well as STNG 3 yrs later). Ultimately it can't compete with some of the better Trek movies. ***1/2

8. Undiscovered Country-Marginally better than #9 on my list. Not a movie that withstands the test of time well both in production and format. ***

9. Insurrection-Underrated, certainly not a terrible movie. Lacks scale and a sense of urgency. Gains points for a plot that's still debated amongst fans today. ***

10. Generations-A complete mess of a script. The most inconsistent internal logic of all stories. It's few pluses can't make up for a scattershot mis-fire of a movie. **

11. Final frontier-The movie that shall not be named! Though I am naming it embarrassingly bad. Problems begin at the start of a poor concept, terrible dialogue, dumb humor, horrible FX, old actors looking tired. This is what happens when the studio doesn't throw out a clearly terrible script...possibly because of the success of STIV and STNG. 1/2

RAMA
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Old August 16 2013, 05:14 PM   #79
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

PIKER wrote: View Post
10. Star Trek (2009) - bad science/Vulcan destruction/Kirk's leapfrog promotion
12. STID - characterization/plot/bad science/Khan?!?
So you're saying the other ten Star Trek films have good science?
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Old August 16 2013, 05:28 PM   #80
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

Here's the thing. "Trekkies United Against the New Star Trek!" makes a much better headline than "Wide Range of Opinions Exist Regarding Latest Trek Film," so naturally the media is jumping all over it. They're just trying to gin up controversy and make it sound like there's some huge backlash or uprising . . . because that makes a sexier story.

There are currently 374 Trekkies online on this board right now. That's over three times more than voted in that silly poll. So why is anyone paying attention to it?
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Old August 16 2013, 05:36 PM   #81
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

My rankings, which will probably say (According to this thread at least) that I'm wrong:

1. The Undiscovered Country
2. The Voyage Home
3. First Contact
4. The Wrath of Khan
5. Star Trek Into Darkness
6. Star Trek (2009)
7. Generations
8. Insurrection
9. The Search for Spock
10. The Final Frontier
11. The Motion Picture
12. Nemesis

If Galaxy Quest was a trek movie, it would probably go between Wrath of Khan and Into Darkness
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Old August 16 2013, 05:43 PM   #82
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

PIKER wrote: View Post
After much reflection, I've drawn up my personal list.

Above average films - strengths:
1. TUC - characterization/plot (c/p)
2. TWOK - c/p
3. TMP - starship porn/music/science!
4. TSFS - c/p
5. TVH - c/p
6. First Contact - c/p

Below average films - weaknesses:
7. TFF - bad fx/science/humor but major bonus pts for soundtrack & "pain" scene
8. Generations - plot/Kirk's death
9. Insurrection - plot
10. Star Trek (2009) - bad science/Vulcan destruction/Kirk's leapfrog promotion
11. Nemesis - characterization/plot
12. STID - characterization/plot/bad science/Khan?!?

Honorable Mention (not ranked):
Galaxy Quest

Note: I am not a JJ hater, it just so happens that I find massive flaws in his films as well as the TNG films with the exception of First Contact. I truly hope he can turn the page with next film and produce something more original, thought-provoking, and entertaining.

I respect your opinion but my gosh, I SO DISAGREE.
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Old August 16 2013, 05:55 PM   #83
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

PIKER wrote: View Post
3. TMP - starship porn/music/science!
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Old August 16 2013, 07:49 PM   #84
PIKER
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

BillJ wrote: View Post
PIKER wrote: View Post
10. Star Trek (2009) - bad science/Vulcan destruction/Kirk's leapfrog promotion
12. STID - characterization/plot/bad science/Khan?!?
So you're saying the other ten Star Trek films have good science?
Not necessarily, there are flaws in each film - especially TFF, but the most recent seem particularly egregious. I had hoped our progress in scientific understanding would be reflected in the newer movies. One example: it's perfectly logical to expect that in the future any massive vessels would be constructed in space. A movie made in the 70's respected its audience enough to incorporate this concept. So I was absolutely flabbergasted that a 21st-century Trek movie would show the Enterprise being constructed amidst the cornfields of Iowa! Ugh!!!
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Old August 16 2013, 08:04 PM   #85
RAMA
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

PIKER wrote: View Post
After much reflection, I've drawn up my personal list.

Above average films - strengths:
1. TUC - characterization/plot (c/p)
2. TWOK - c/p
3. TMP - starship porn/music/science!
4. TSFS - c/p
5. TVH - c/p
6. First Contact - c/p

Below average films - weaknesses:
7. TFF - bad fx/science/humor but major bonus pts for soundtrack & "pain" scene
8. Generations - plot/Kirk's death
9. Insurrection - plot
10. Star Trek (2009) - bad science/Vulcan destruction/Kirk's leapfrog promotion
11. Nemesis - characterization/plot
12. STID - characterization/plot/bad science/Khan?!?

Honorable Mention (not ranked):
Galaxy Quest

Note: I am not a JJ hater, it just so happens that I find massive flaws in his films as well as the TNG films with the exception of First Contact. I truly hope he can turn the page with next film and produce something more original, thought-provoking, and entertaining.
You're in for a long road if you think scifi movies have to have a lot of accurate science in them and use that to rate quality in a movie. It's not as important in entertainment to be accurate, as Star Trek is often not, but what is more important is that some of the better movies use what we might call the standard "scientific method"(in the case of STTMP--which you label as scientific--it has precious little science in it, but it does have a police procedural feel, and it's speculations seem plausibly scientific even if they are not). If they are innacurate but seem internally consistent with their speculations I can suspend disbelief. By this gauge, the distance between STID and STTMP is really not that wide, and STID does far less of what many people thought Star Trek was doing too much of...technobabble! It is enough that they discuss something without explaining it in detail. The technobabble was taking casual fans out of the equation.

Frankly STID's stance on drones is far more thought provoking than just about any theme tackled in the previous ST movies, far more so than the after-the-fact and obvious fall of communism plot in STVI for example.
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Old August 16 2013, 08:43 PM   #86
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

RAMA wrote:
One example: it's perfectly logical to expect that in the future any massive vessels would be constructed in space. A movie made in the 70's respected its audience enough to incorporate this concept. So I was absolutely flabbergasted that a 21st-century Trek movie would show the Enterprise being constructed amidst the cornfields of Iowa! Ugh!!!
Why is it so outlandish that a society that can manipulate matter and gravity would choose to build space vehicles on the ground?

From a personnel standpoint, you wouldn't have to waste power bringing workers to and from orbit nor would you have to build orbital habitats to support workers and materials.

Under our current understanding, it would make sense to mine asteroids and build in space. With Star Trek's science, you can build a starship anywhere you damn well please.
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Old August 16 2013, 08:43 PM   #87
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

PIKER wrote: View Post
One example: it's perfectly logical to expect that in the future any massive vessels would be constructed in space. A movie made in the 70's respected its audience enough to incorporate this concept. So I was absolutely flabbergasted that a 21st-century Trek movie would show the Enterprise being constructed amidst the cornfields of Iowa! Ugh!!!
If the SDF-1 can be constructed (in this case, refurbished) on the ground and then lift off, so can the Enterprise and other Starfleet vessels. Big fracking deal.

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Oh yes, Galaxy Quest.

The one movie (which, although I love it) makes Star Trek fans out to be massive fools and idiots who live in their parent's basements (never mind that most of the fandom has aged considerably and is now in their 60s at the most, the youngest of them now in their mid-40s like me). The movie that's basically a satire of Star Trek and is based on Star Trek, but is not Star Trek (at least for the purposes of this survey, it shouldn't be!) All because they don't like Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman and Lindehof. All because they have to be obdurate trolls stuck in the founding moment of Star Trek or whatever past moment's best for them. These people-these obnoxious Trekkies-are the ones deciding what's best for the rest of us?

This is the same thing I was talking about to somebody else in another post this morning; he and these people speaking for me and the rest of us about the new movie. And the top best of the list is Galaxy Quest?

Again, I will say this, as loud as I can-STOP SPEAKING FOR ME AND THE REST OF US AS FANS.

Last edited by Shaka Zulu; August 16 2013 at 09:24 PM.
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Old August 16 2013, 08:58 PM   #88
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

PIKER wrote: View Post
Not necessarily, there are flaws in each film - especially TFF, but the most recent seem particularly egregious. I had hoped our progress in scientific understanding would be reflected in the newer movies. One example: it's perfectly logical to expect that in the future any massive vessels would be constructed in space. A movie made in the 70's respected its audience enough to incorporate this concept. So I was absolutely flabbergasted that a 21st-century Trek movie would show the Enterprise being constructed amidst the cornfields of Iowa! Ugh!!!
I thought that was pretty dumb especially since we've seen ships being build in space already but it was way down on the long list of problems I had. My biggest being the supernova that threatens the galaxy and black holes that sends you back in time or destroy stuff depending on what the plot requires.
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Old August 16 2013, 09:05 PM   #89
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

GameOn wrote: View Post
My biggest being the supernova that threatens the galaxy and black holes that sends you back in time or destroy stuff depending on what the plot requires.
Star Trek's strong point has always been characterization, not science.

I mean, does anyone here actually believe that if you fly around the sun really fast that you can go backwards and forwards in time? Did anyone ever actually believe it?
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Old August 16 2013, 09:16 PM   #90
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Re: The STAR TREK Movies, As Ranked By STAR TREK Con-Goers

BillJ wrote: View Post
GameOn wrote: View Post
My biggest being the supernova that threatens the galaxy and black holes that sends you back in time or destroy stuff depending on what the plot requires.
Star Trek's strong point has always been characterization, not science.

I mean, does anyone here actually believe that if you fly around the sun really fast that you can go backwards and forwards in time? Did anyone ever actually believe it?
There's a difference between fictional science and technology that doesn't exist and science that we know TODAY is completely wrong. Even if the future science and technology wasn't exactly right Star Trek usually tried to present it in a believable way that was consistent with the rules of its own fictional universe. Without this Star Trek ceases to be science fiction and becomes space fantasy with space magic.
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