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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old August 16 2013, 01:22 PM   #1
Captain Nebula
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Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

So I realized after watching Insurrection again recently that Generations and Insurrection have the exact same plot:

A madman creates a device that will kill a lot of people for no other reason but to get his lost 'wonderful life' back. Picard even saves the day and defeats the bad guy in the exact same way.

Picard: "Here Dr. Soren/Ru'afo, let me sabotage your device so that it blows up in your face."

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Old August 16 2013, 01:33 PM   #2
ArcherNX01
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

You have a point, i've never thought of that before.
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Old August 16 2013, 04:11 PM   #3
trekker670
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

I think if you boil down a movie plot to that succinct of a overview, I think that would describe any number of movies, Star Trek, Sci-Fi, or any other genre.
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Old August 16 2013, 04:20 PM   #4
sonak
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

trekker670 wrote: View Post
I think if you boil down a movie plot to that succinct of a overview, I think that would describe any number of movies, Star Trek, Sci-Fi, or any other genre.


yep
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Old August 18 2013, 05:02 AM   #5
T'Girl
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

Captain Nebula wrote: View Post
A madman creates a device that will kill a lot of people for no other reason but to get his lost 'wonderful life' back.
Except, up until the end of Insurrection Ruafo and the rest of the Sona were going out of their way NOT to kill the Baku. If the plan had gone off as planned no one would have died (except maybe/eventually of old age).

There no indication that Soran ever gave a damn about anyone dying from his plan, or being allowed to die of eventual old age.

Very different plots.

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Old August 18 2013, 05:03 AM   #6
Lance
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

It's a flaw with all the TNG movies though. The TOS movies were all relatively distinct from each other plot-wise, for better or worse. But get to the TNG features and it's like they had a prefabricated plot template and they just moved the pieces around a little bit for each new movie.

Which is why it was so easy for some internet wag to come up with the TNG movie plot generator:

http://www.impossiblefunky.com/tngpg.html
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Old August 18 2013, 10:46 AM   #7
Timo
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

Except, up until the end of Insurrection Ruafo and the rest of the Sona were going out of their way NOT to kill the Baku.
But probably only for show. They needed Starfleet to believe in the goodness of their plan, after all.

Had they really been able to move the Ba'ku to another location, though, the Ba'ku would immediately have raised holy hell, as they were not primitives incapable of realizing what happened. So it would definitely be in the Son'a interests for the holoship to have a little "accident" of one sort or another...

Rua'fo really hated the Ba'ku for their good looks and the disgusting habit of spewing apostrophes everywhere. Making them suffer must have been a major part of his plot from the get-go, and he could spin any sort of technobabble at the ignorant Feds to justify his destructive approach to personal rejuvenation so that this suffering would be ensured. Ultimately, elimination of witnesses would be necessary, though - after all, if the Son'a didn't have to fear retaliation from the Federation's part, why would they need to beg for UFP permission to mess with the Ba'ku in the first place?

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Old August 21 2013, 01:53 AM   #8
Hober Mallow
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

Captain Nebula wrote: View Post
So I realized after watching Insurrection again recently that Generations and Insurrection have the exact same plot:

A madman creates a device that will kill a lot of people for no other reason but to get his lost 'wonderful life' back. Picard even saves the day and defeats the bad guy in the exact same way.

Picard: "Here Dr. Soren/Ru'afo, let me sabotage your device so that it blows up in your face."

The bad guys even say the same line at the films' climax.

Soran/Ru'ofo: "Picard! Get away from that _____!"

EDIT: Hmmm, I swear I remember Ru'ofo saying "Get away from that transmitter!" or something like that, but I can't find the line in any transcript.
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Old August 25 2013, 01:35 PM   #9
Stoek
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

To an extent all the Next Gen movies hinge on a device of one kind or another and the need to stop it, and the diabolical villian attached to said device.
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Old August 25 2013, 03:39 PM   #10
JarodRussell
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

Stoek wrote: View Post
To an extent all the Next Gen movies hinge on a device of one kind or another and the need to stop it, and the diabolical villian attached to said device.
So did most of the TOS films, to an extend. And all nuTrek films.
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Old August 25 2013, 04:28 PM   #11
sonak
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Stoek wrote: View Post
To an extent all the Next Gen movies hinge on a device of one kind or another and the need to stop it, and the diabolical villian attached to said device.
So did most of the TOS films, to an extend. And all nuTrek films.


TSFS, TFF, and TUC didn't, unless you're defining "device" so loosely as to mean "enemy ship" or something.

In contrast, GEN, INS, and NEM, three out of the four next gen movies, did rely on that, so it's accurate to say that it's more of a Next Gen thing.
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Old August 25 2013, 04:51 PM   #12
Opus
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

TMP and TVH are pretty much the same plot too.
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Old August 26 2013, 06:32 PM   #13
Stoek
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

sonak wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Stoek wrote: View Post
To an extent all the Next Gen movies hinge on a device of one kind or another and the need to stop it, and the diabolical villian attached to said device.
So did most of the TOS films, to an extend. And all nuTrek films.


TSFS, TFF, and TUC didn't, unless you're defining "device" so loosely as to mean "enemy ship" or something.

In contrast, GEN, INS, and NEM, three out of the four next gen movies, did rely on that, so it's accurate to say that it's more of a Next Gen thing.
I would honestly include FC since the "device" in question is The Enterprise itself which the Borg are in the process of taking control of.

Opus wrote: View Post
TMP and TVH are pretty much the same plot too.
*raises an eyebrow* A fascinating interpretation but one which I suspect you are the minority holder of.
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Old August 26 2013, 09:41 PM   #14
CorporalClegg
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

Star Trek films also have a fondness for revenge or the lamentation of one's (usually Kirk or Picard's) mortality.

TMP: Mortality
TWOK: Revenge/Mortality
TSFS: Mortality
TVH: Mortality
TFF: Mortality
TUC: Revenge/Mortality
GEN: Mortality
FC: Revenge
INS: Revenge/Mortality
NEM: Revenge/Mortality
ST09: Revenge
STiD: Revenge/Mortality

Granted, these are probably the two most common thematic strings throughout the history of storytelling, but aren't usually addressed so matter-of-factually through immediate discourse like they are in Trek film.

Stoek wrote: View Post
*raises an eyebrow* A fascinating interpretation but one which I suspect you are the minority holder of.
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Old September 4 2013, 01:32 AM   #15
HaventGotALife
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Re: Generations and Insurrection (Spoilers)

The heart of Insurrection for this fan is not stopping the bad guy. It's something Picard says in the first few minutes "Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"

This entire movie is showing Picard and company as more than soldiers in a war with the Dominion. It was a nice counter-weight, at the time, to Deep Space Nine, a show I love, but not much exploring done on that show, at least not in the TNG way.

Picard learns about the Ba'ku, Riker tells us about the Son'a. Geordi is there to tell us what he thinks of Starfleet's plans. "I have eyes, but how can I look at another sunset knowing what my sight cost these people." The moral conundrum is this movie, not the bad guy and not wanting to age. Both deal with people obsessed with the one thing we can't have--immortality. But that's where the comparisons end.

And as for plots being distinct, Star Trek I and V are almost exactly alike, with a few pieces moved around.
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