RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,201
Posts: 5,436,987
Members: 24,948
Currently online: 578
Newest member: TedCarchidi

TrekToday headlines

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 14 2013, 07:37 PM   #121
Smellmet
Captain
 
Smellmet's Avatar
 
Location: Goole
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Praetor wrote: View Post
Well, at least tell us why before the phaser barrage commences.
Exactly, it was big screen Trek at it worst - totally lacking any ambition and locked into the Berman era comfort zone, many people blame Nemesis for almost destroying the franchise, but it was this film where the low budget, cheap looking rot started
Smellmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14 2013, 08:06 PM   #122
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

"Insurrection" would have been just fine as a TV Movie as it played out like a TV episode. However it was a theatrical release not a TV Movie it should at least try and be ambitious.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 15 2013, 01:22 AM   #123
Kevman7987
Commander
 
Kevman7987's Avatar
 
Location: Erie, PA, USA
View Kevman7987's Twitter Profile
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Smellmet wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
Well, at least tell us why before the phaser barrage commences.
Exactly, it was big screen Trek at it worst - totally lacking any ambition and locked into the Berman era comfort zone, many people blame Nemesis for almost destroying the franchise, but it was this film where the low budget, cheap looking rot started
I always thought about it like this:

Since TOS & the TOS films were popular, Paramount decided to make a new Star Trek show and came up with TNG.
TNG starts out and begins struggling immediately so RIKER GROWS THE BEARD and Star Trek gets awesome.
During Insurrection, RIKER SHAVES THE BEARD and all of the sudden, Star Trek starts to completely fall apart.

BEARD MAGIC

Jonathan Frakes' beard magic was preventing Rick Berman and Brannon Braga from ruining Star Trek. Once he shaved the beard, nothing was cancelling out all of that backed up Berman/Braga-ruining from spilling out all over the place.
__________________
"Don't do it, Meat!"
"Don't do it, Cheese!"
Kevman7987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 02:03 AM   #124
Gojira
Commodore
 
Gojira's Avatar
 
Location: Stompin' on Tokyo
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

I just watched Insurrection again last night and First Contact this morning and I like them both pretty equally. Heck, I even like Generations. Nemesis has some good moments but I like that one the least.

I do not find the complaint that Insurrectionwas like an episode a bad thing. Sure on some levels it was, but then again I found Star Trek III and Star Trek V really resembled episodes from TV so it never bothered me.
__________________
My Science Fiction-Fantasy movie review Blog: http://foleyfunfilmfacts.wordpress.com/
Gojira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 05:04 AM   #125
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

When I go to see a Star Trek movie I want something larger in scope than an episode of the series.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 09:00 AM   #126
Smellmet
Captain
 
Smellmet's Avatar
 
Location: Goole
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

DonIago wrote: View Post
When I go to see a Star Trek movie I want something larger in scope than an episode of the series.
Exactly, this is my problem with insurrection, on the big screen you haven't got the luxury of building character relationships over a long story arc (arguably it's already been done in the series) and for me the stakes and the peril need to be higher in the movies, this is why I like the 2 new movies more than several of the older ones.
Smellmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 11:33 AM   #127
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

DonIago wrote: View Post
When I go to see a Star Trek movie I want something larger in scope than an episode of the series.
Luckily I don't have that problem. I like smaller films on the big screen as well.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 02:12 PM   #128
bullethead
Fleet Captain
 
bullethead's Avatar
 
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
When I go to see a Star Trek movie I want something larger in scope than an episode of the series.
Luckily I don't have that problem. I like smaller films on the big screen as well.
I don't have a problem with smaller films either, but they need to be a lot more personal than larger scope films. The Wolverine, for example, worked because it revolved around Logan's death wish and guilt over killing Jean in X-men 3. Insurrection doesn't work as a small scope film because the focus is divided up among the cast at different points and there are no real personal stakes/motivations for Picard beyond getting laid and risking his career (which he's already done before and got cleared, so we know he's not going to lose). Sure, upholding his principles is a noble thing, but the guy already said "Sometimes the moral thing to do is not the smart thing to do" in Descent, Part 1. And then there's the hypocrisy with the Maquis thing, which just makes Picard look like a (possibly racist) asshole.
__________________
A business man and engineer discuss how to launch a communications satellite in the 1960s:
Biz Dev Guy: Your communications satellite has to be the size, shape, and weight of a hydrogen bomb.
bullethead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 03:12 PM   #129
Gojira
Commodore
 
Gojira's Avatar
 
Location: Stompin' on Tokyo
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

DonIago wrote: View Post
When I go to see a Star Trek movie I want something larger in scope than an episode of the series.

I actually do not like to go the the movie theater that much so my first introduction to Insurrection was on VHS many years ago and so I never had that problem oir even realized it was more like an episode until later.
__________________
My Science Fiction-Fantasy movie review Blog: http://foleyfunfilmfacts.wordpress.com/

Last edited by Gojira; August 16 2013 at 03:26 PM.
Gojira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 03:37 PM   #130
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

I love television shows and I love movies, and I love movies that pick up where television shows left off, but I also have different expectations of movies than I do of television shows.

The TOS movies, even the ones I'm not especially fond of, do, to my mind, a very good job of raising the stakes for Our Heroes, or at least of feeling like they do. Plus you've got TWOK-TVH as essentially one story carried through three of the films.

By contrast, the TNG movies all exist in relative isolation to one another, and INS in particular doesn't, to my mind, do a great job of raising the stakes, especially not after FC. I guess one head-scratcher is that they could have continued with Data's emotional development through the films if nothing else, but if anything they seemed to devolve that as the films continued. I kept hoping there'd be more of a sense of continuity between the films.

As a DS9 fan, it also really began to wear on me that the TNG films seemed almost to make a point of avoiding what was going on in that series.

I wonder whether INS would have been received better as the immediate sequel to GEN.

I also wonder about how much the TNG movies suffer because they don't benefit from a massive improvement in VFX technology the way the TOS movies do relative to their respective series. If we'd waited a decade (or more) after TNG before the movies started, would that have made a difference in how they were received?
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 04:29 PM   #131
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Considering that ship VFX have not exactly improved in 15 years (the CG has, but the look of a well-executed miniature is rarely exceeded by originating full-on CG for vessels -- EVENT HORIZON and SPACE COWBOYS and STARSHIP TROOPERS certainly haven't been bettered, though I imagine GRAVITY's masterful CG VFX will redefine what quality means in a way not done since Kubrick), I don't think the reception should have been significantly different.

More about the budget and the quantity, since folks seem to need 10 times as many shots to avoid being restless (look at the TOS films and outside of TMP they are relatively low VFX shotloads ... TUC is around 100 or 130 as I recall.) But from LOST IN SPACE (something like 800 vfx shots) onward, quantity has been trumping quality in a big way.

Sometimes I think anybody doing a space movie needs to look at CORBOMITE MANEUVER and see that you don't need to be cutting outside every four seconds (in fact, you'd often be better limiting your exterior visuals to viewscreen stuff to maintain the mood of the live-action.)
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 07:39 PM   #132
Timby
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
 
Timby's Avatar
 
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Max Grodénchik's Bajoran is in the bonus scenes, not Quark's.
Trill, not Bajoran.

Timby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 08:14 PM   #133
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

trevanian wrote: View Post
Considering that ship VFX have not exactly improved in 15 years (the CG has, but the look of a well-executed miniature is rarely exceeded by originating full-on CG for vessels -- EVENT HORIZON and SPACE COWBOYS and STARSHIP TROOPERS certainly haven't been bettered, though I imagine GRAVITY's masterful CG VFX will redefine what quality means in a way not done since Kubrick), I don't think the reception should have been significantly different.

More about the budget and the quantity, since folks seem to need 10 times as many shots to avoid being restless (look at the TOS films and outside of TMP they are relatively low VFX shotloads ... TUC is around 100 or 130 as I recall.) But from LOST IN SPACE (something like 800 vfx shots) onward, quantity has been trumping quality in a big way.

Sometimes I think anybody doing a space movie needs to look at CORBOMITE MANEUVER and see that you don't need to be cutting outside every four seconds (in fact, you'd often be better limiting your exterior visuals to viewscreen stuff to maintain the mood of the live-action.)
The trick is finding the right balance between too few shots and too many shots. They biggest part of any TV episode/film is the script, if you have a great script. The audiance can be slighly more willing to forgive some bad FX's. The best FX in the world however cannot overcome a lacklustre script.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16 2013, 08:19 PM   #134
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Ive discussed the merits and lack thereof of this movie at length before and all I really care to say about it now is that I like to watch it as a mild diversion occasionally. It's not offenisive, earth shattering, mind bending, or epic, but it does play like an expanded episode of the series, and it could do much worse than that. If I want something that is ST and is out of the box, there is ST09 and STID.

RAMA
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 17 2013, 12:38 AM   #135
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: When did the perception of Insurrection change?

I'm not sure anyone was ever terribly excited by INSURRECTION. I remember that it was the first Trek movie I ever saw all by myself--because I couldn't find anyone who wanted to see it with me.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
ins, insurrection

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.