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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 8 2013, 06:01 AM   #61
CrazyMatt
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
... and maybe the most overrated of any Trek episode.
I agree, to the extent that it's often rated as one of the two or three best (and sometimes the very best). I'd put it in the top twenty.
And that's really my point, you said it better than I did. I'm not saying it's not a good episode... in fact, when I'm in a generous mood, I might even say it's a very good episode. But I can easily name 10-15 episodes from the first two seasons that I think are better.
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Old August 8 2013, 06:53 AM   #62
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

Lance wrote: View Post
Putting aside the fact that it's funny, a lot of reason why I like The Trouble With Tribbles comes down to it being so well plotted. David Gerrold crafted a really beautiful script where everything that happens in Reel 3 gets set-up in Reel 1, so there's a nice watertight feeling to it, there aren't any plot holes. Just about the only thing which feels almost like an ass-pull is Darvin being a Klingon, but even then it's neat because we already know the Klingons want to sabotage Sherman's Planet, so it makes sense that they'd have an operative on the space station.
This. A thousand times this.

I've written comedy for the stage - there's a craft to constructing a comedic script, just like any other writing, and it may actually be harder to do than drama. The script is tight, the actors' timing was perfect, the comedy comes from the fundamental natures of each character, and while I agree that Koloth wasn't the epitome of the fierce Klingon warrior, it's quite possible that he felt the mission was just as ridiculous as Kirk did and wasn't taking events seriously.

If any character should have been cast differently, though, it should have been Freeman - Paul Baxley was Shatner's stand-in, and it shows in his flat performance and line delivery.
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Old August 8 2013, 04:54 PM   #63
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

If any character should have been cast differently, though, it should have been Freeman - Paul Baxley was Shatner's stand-in, and it shows in his flat performance and line delivery.
David Gerrold states that he wrote the role for himself, but was turned as being to skinny so Baxley was given the (unnecessary to the plot) role
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Old August 8 2013, 07:23 PM   #64
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

TOSalltheway wrote: View Post
TRIBBLES SUCKS !!
Nah, it doesn't. It's not my favorite episode, but it's far from the bottom of the list of good episodes.

I am a die hard Trek fan and have been for 40 years
I've clocked 41. Not that length of time watching the series has any bearing on this....

but this episode is just embarrassing. Some episodes have grand intentions but flop ( Alternative factor, etc. ) but Tribbles just sucks.
Still waiting to hear specifics. "Sucks" and "bad" don't shed any light on why you have such a violent hatred of this episode.

People who like this episode likely feel that "Three's Company" is the epitome of the comedic art.
I like this episode. I don't like Three's Company. So, wrong again. By the way, insulting people does not count as explaining why you don't like this episode. It's certainly not the best method of getting people to side with you.

Its BAD, poorly written, schlocky, bad. Yes cut pieces of fabric are adorable but it is BAD.
Okay, getting closer to something here (although saying "bad" twice in the same sentence is cheating). However, it's not poorly written. You might not find it funny, which is fine, but it's obviously a well constructed episode by a writer with a firm grasp of the series and characters. You can dislike something without it being bad. For example, I hate I Love Lucy, but I respect it for the classic it is.

William Campbell was brilliant as Trelane but does anyone for a moment take him seriously as a fierce warrior Klingon ?
I take him seriously as a Klingon who's duplicitous and who has nothing to gain by being belligerent. Not all Klingon's have to be identical.

Hey, lets end the episode with a pun, brilliant.
And this differs from every other episode that ended with the crew having a laugh exactly how?

This episode tries too hard to be cute and it is BAD.

BAD BAD BAD
Continually repeating the word BAD is no substitute for a compelling argument and it's very hard to take that sort of review seriously. I maintain that this is not a bad episode. You just don't like it. Which is fine.
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Old August 9 2013, 12:12 AM   #65
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
TOSalltheway wrote: View Post
TRIBBLES SUCKS !!
Nah, it doesn't. It's not my favorite episode, but it's far from the bottom of the list of good episodes.

I am a die hard Trek fan and have been for 40 years
I've clocked 41. Not that length of time watching the series has any bearing on this....



Still waiting to hear specifics. "Sucks" and "bad" don't shed any light on why you have such a violent hatred of this episode.



I like this episode. I don't like Three's Company. So, wrong again. By the way, insulting people does not count as explaining why you don't like this episode. It's certainly not the best method of getting people to side with you.



Okay, getting closer to something here (although saying "bad" twice in the same sentence is cheating). However, it's not poorly written. You might not find it funny, which is fine, but it's obviously a well constructed episode by a writer with a firm grasp of the series and characters. You can dislike something without it being bad. For example, I hate I Love Lucy, but I respect it for the classic it is.



I take him seriously as a Klingon who's duplicitous and who has nothing to gain by being belligerent. Not all Klingon's have to be identical.

Hey, lets end the episode with a pun, brilliant.
And this differs from every other episode that ended with the crew having a laugh exactly how?

This episode tries too hard to be cute and it is BAD.

BAD BAD BAD
Continually repeating the word BAD is no substitute for a compelling argument and it's very hard to take that sort of review seriously. I maintain that this is not a bad episode. You just don't like it. Which is fine.
People don't necessarily have to justify an opinion with an in depth analysis and point by point breakdown. Heck, I can't tell you why I don't like TTWT beyond the plain silliness and horribly inappropriate slapstick. I patently don't have the intellectual capacity to provide a more detailed argument, but I do know I simply don't like it.
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Old August 9 2013, 02:43 AM   #66
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

TOSalltheway wrote: View Post
...
Hey, lets end the episode with a pun, brilliant......."no tribble at all" makes me cringe.

...
"Pun? What pun?"
"Shut up! He thinks he's witty!"


Not to mention that it's wordplay that was spoiled by the episode's on-screen title!

My least favorite part of the show, though I still enjoy it.
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Old August 9 2013, 09:33 AM   #67
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
If any character should have been cast differently, though, it should have been Freeman - Paul Baxley was Shatner's stand-in, and it shows in his flat performance and line delivery.
Stunt double actually, not stand-in. Eddie Paskey was Shatner's stand-in. Baxley was probably cast because of the upcoming fight scene.
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Old August 9 2013, 10:53 AM   #68
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

Myko wrote: View Post
TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
If any character should have been cast differently, though, it should have been Freeman - Paul Baxley was Shatner's stand-in, and it shows in his flat performance and line delivery.
Stunt double actually, not stand-in. Eddie Paskey was Shatner's stand-in. Baxley was probably cast because of the upcoming fight scene.
I think Baxley stands out in the episode because he's behaving exactly like a real person, which is to say flat and uninteresting, while the industry-standard acting style of the period was to put on more of a deliberate personality. Professional actors in 1967 played it a little bigger, while Baxley might have fit right in doing an episode of re-imagined BATTLESTAR GALACTICA circa 2005, with it's understated naturalism.

I'm phrasing it badly, but I think I'm onto something.
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Old August 10 2013, 08:01 AM   #69
TorontoTrekker
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

mb22 wrote: View Post
If any character should have been cast differently, though, it should have been Freeman - Paul Baxley was Shatner's stand-in, and it shows in his flat performance and line delivery.
David Gerrold states that he wrote the role for himself, but was turned as being to skinny so Baxley was given the (unnecessary to the plot) role
That's sort of what I was alluding to. I think, too, that there might have been some union rules preventing David from being cast - though I admit that I don't know what the rules were in 1967.

If memory serves, he's also used the Freeman character (or at least the name) in a few of his novels. I can only assume that he's using the character as a proxy for himself, to express his own commentary on the events of the plot (especially since his real surname is Friedman - I don't think that's a coincidence). I've never actually asked him about that, though. I probably should.

And David is still pretty skinny. I can only hope I'm in that kind of shape when I'm in my late 60s. (Not likely - I'm not in that kind of shape now, in my mid 40s.)

Myko wrote: View Post
Stunt double actually, not stand-in. Eddie Paskey was Shatner's stand-in. Baxley was probably cast because of the upcoming fight scene.
I stand corrected - thanks.

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I think Baxley stands out in the episode because he's behaving exactly like a real person, which is to say flat and uninteresting, while the industry-standard acting style of the period was to put on more of a deliberate personality. Professional actors in 1967 played it a little bigger, while Baxley might have fit right in doing an episode of re-imagined BATTLESTAR GALACTICA circa 2005, with it's understated naturalism.

I'm phrasing it badly, but I think I'm onto something.
You may well be right - but I don't think it's just a 1967 thing, I think it's a Star Trek thing. There's a definite "Star Trek" acting style, a little more theatrical than most other television.
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Old August 11 2013, 04:17 AM   #70
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
You may well be right - but I don't think it's just a 1967 thing, I think it's a Star Trek thing. There's a definite "Star Trek" acting style, a little more theatrical than most other television.
Have you watched any of Star Trek's contemporaries? In general its acting style was industry standard for the time.
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Old August 12 2013, 07:03 AM   #71
TorontoTrekker
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

Maurice wrote: View Post
TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
You may well be right - but I don't think it's just a 1967 thing, I think it's a Star Trek thing. There's a definite "Star Trek" acting style, a little more theatrical than most other television.
Have you watched any of Star Trek's contemporaries? In general its acting style was industry standard for the time.
Some, but not recently. (I remember seeing a lot of "Bewitched" and "I Love Lucy" as a kid, and a fair bit of "The Addams Family".) Admittedly, it was more common in those days for actors to have a theatrical background, meaning that everything had to be bigger so that people in the back row would be able to see. Nowadays, most actors are just TV or movie actors, and very few have done a lot of professional theatre.

I still think that there's a distinct Star Trek style of acting - if you watch DS9 or Voyager and compare them to shows that were on at the same time, they were much more theatrical.
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Old August 12 2013, 11:12 AM   #72
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

There's nothing distinct about the acting on TOS that's any different than what else, particularly dramas, was being aired at the time. I have shows on DVD from that era and there's nothing to set it apart.
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Old August 12 2013, 12:18 PM   #73
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

Warped9 wrote: View Post
There's nothing distinct about the acting on TOS that's any different than what else, particularly dramas, was being aired at the time. I have shows on DVD from that era and there's nothing to set it apart.
Nothing but magnificence!
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Old August 15 2013, 02:13 PM   #74
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
There's nothing distinct about the acting on TOS that's any different than what else, particularly dramas, was being aired at the time. I have shows on DVD from that era and there's nothing to set it apart.
Nothing but magnificence!
I've just been watching some early Mission: Impossible and original The Outer Limits and the acting style and so many other little details of television filming are very much like TOS. And on both shows you see so many TOS alumni.

Some interesting DNA trivia, too. Robert Justman worked on The Outer Limits before Star Trek so it's not surprising there's a lot of similarity in how stories were told. And Mission: Impossible was also being produced at Desilu Studios so it's note surprising that there could be similarities in how the two shows were filmed and produced.
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Old June 24 2014, 05:28 PM   #75
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Re: "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the most overrated episode of TOS..

In general, I enjoy "The Trouble With Tribbles."

While watching DS9 with my girlfriend all the way through (she'd never seen it), we paused and watched "Trouble" just before watching "Trials & Tribble-ations" as she didn' remember the original episode and we both found it quite charming.

That said, a lot of its luster has waned over the years for me. Partly because of the near-lionization some fans engage in over David Gerrold's skill as a writer, and more so because my own personal interactions with Gerrold have been less than positive. (I'm not crazy about people who enjoy and defend making rape jokes.)

That said, the episode is a fun romp, and even if it is Gerrold's one-hit wonder, there are days I wish I weren't so interactive with fandom or the people we fawn all over because it really kills the illusion sometimes.
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