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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old August 15 2013, 01:31 PM   #46
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

The trouble with RTD is that (to quote Twist in Spaced) I can really see what he tries to do. I just don't think he always succeeds.

He pushed the Rose/10 togeather/forever notion to ramp up the tradegy when they would be split. The trouble is that by ramping it up he turned Rose and the Doctor into a pair of annying giggling schoolgirls and actually made me start to dislike a character I'd really liked in series 1.

Then with Martha he pushed her as lovestruck puppy, a woman who'd never be as great as Rose, a woman the Doctor could never love, a woman destined to amount to little. Now he did this so that, eventually, Martha's quest would be even more heroic...trouble is by the time she came good, I'd been so put off the character that I didn't care.
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Old August 15 2013, 03:32 PM   #47
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

^ That's a great way to put it! Although I did like Martha, your points are valid.
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Old August 15 2013, 04:10 PM   #48
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

I definitely prefer Rose in Series 1 than 2. In fact I S1, she's one of my favourite companions ever, but by series 2 I found her annoying.

Really, Rose was meant to be the love interest, Martha was meant to be basically the love-struck puppy as Starkers puts it, and Donna is just the Doctors buddy. Which I like. But I think it went to far into just buddy territory with Amy and Rory. With Clara, she's a bit more like a younger relative, something which I fell will increase in series 8.
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Old August 15 2013, 07:00 PM   #49
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

^I thought the Ponds and Clara were the other way around.
Starkers wrote: View Post
Then with Martha he pushed her as lovestruck puppy, a woman who'd never be as great as Rose, a woman the Doctor could never love, a woman destined to amount to little. Now he did this so that, eventually, Martha's quest would be even more heroic...trouble is by the time she came good, I'd been so put off the character that I didn't care.
I've never understood how being eternally rejected makes someone less likeable?
The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
But ultimately, it's Davies falling into the trap that most writers of modern sci-fi film and television do: thinking that the audience can't understand something otherworldly or relate to it unless we see it through a surrogate's eyes. That notion is complete and total bullshit, but it's become the rule, the formula, in so much of the genre.
Actually, he was just updating the Doctor Who formula, in which the fantastic and the mundane cohabit in pretty much every story.
Updating into bs? Why?

Also, what is wrong with giggling schoolgirls?

Last edited by Konata Izumi; August 15 2013 at 07:10 PM.
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Old August 15 2013, 10:24 PM   #50
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Actually, he was just updating the Doctor Who formula, in which the fantastic and the mundane cohabit in pretty much every story.
"The fantastic and the mundane cohabit" is one definition of science fiction in general, not just Doctor Who. That's a given, and that's not my point. It's RTD's focus in his storytelling that's the problem. What he thought was important about certain characters, what he thought the audience would like and get into, wasn't necessarily true. And it took him a long time to realize it.

Superman stories don't need to be told through the eyes of Jimmy Olson in order for them to work.
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Old August 15 2013, 10:37 PM   #51
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Konata Izumi wrote: View Post
^I thought the Ponds and Clara were the other way around.
Starkers wrote: View Post
Then with Martha he pushed her as lovestruck puppy, a woman who'd never be as great as Rose, a woman the Doctor could never love, a woman destined to amount to little. Now he did this so that, eventually, Martha's quest would be even more heroic...trouble is by the time she came good, I'd been so put off the character that I didn't care.
I've never understood how being eternally rejected makes someone less likeable?
The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
But ultimately, it's Davies falling into the trap that most writers of modern sci-fi film and television do: thinking that the audience can't understand something otherworldly or relate to it unless we see it through a surrogate's eyes. That notion is complete and total bullshit, but it's become the rule, the formula, in so much of the genre.
Actually, he was just updating the Doctor Who formula, in which the fantastic and the mundane cohabit in pretty much every story.
Updating into bs? Why?

Also, what is wrong with giggling schoolgirls?
Actual giggling schoolgirls? Nothing. A 900 year old alien acting like a giggling schoolgirl? Plenty...

As for Martha, it was the insipid lost puppy dog expression to maintained most of the time., Frankly I just wanted to shake her. It's hard to respect a character that doesn't seem to respect herself, although maybe a better actress could have done something more with the role, sadly Freema just tended to blend into the background around chew the scenery Tennant...
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Old August 15 2013, 10:43 PM   #52
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

The problem with RTD is his media-sucking, celebrity-obsessed viewpoint that everything he writes is filtered through. Everything is always about fame and it's all very shallow and tiresome. When it got to the point where he just thought casting Kylie Minogue would be enough to make a good story, it was time for him to definitely go. Reading about his idea for a JK Rowling episode was pretty appalling. He reminds me of Van Statten in Dalek. He was all about taking something potentially spectacular and watering it down to frivolous showbiz wank concerning celebrity gossip and irritating BBC agendas. It's hard to watch now as most of it is just so plastic, lifeless and sterile. I caught a bit of Planet of the Dead last year and found it absolutely unwatchable. Look kids, it's Lee Evans sucking up to David Tennant while that one off of Eastenders pouts. Oh, and did we mention this is funding human rights hell-hole Dubai? Oh, JUST. FUCK. OFF.

Sadly, that is what a great deal of the British public want. It was a good move for ratings, but absolutely the wrong move for the quality of the show.

My favourite character he ever wrote was Lance from The Runaway Bride, chastising Donna Noble for her shallow, show-biz obsessed, The X Factor-watching, typically RTD lifestyle. Of course, he was the villain. But on rewatch I could relate to him more than the majority of RTD's protagonists.

Best companion he wrote was Smith and Jones Martha as she wasn't worshipped by the show and The Doctor for being thick as pigshit and worthless. She was smart, capable and not a complete drone. Shame she soon became Rose again, except this time she's black and The Doctor doesn't fancy her.

Last edited by DalekJim; August 15 2013 at 10:53 PM.
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Old August 15 2013, 11:50 PM   #53
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Yeah, I have to admit even I hated all the special guest celebrity's in RTDs run, mainly in specials. But remember Moffat still crams in celebrities with pointless and annoying characters for ratings. Catharine Jenkins in "A Christmas Carol", probably officially the worst episode of Doctor Who of all time with a shit title, Bill Bailey in the following Christmas special "The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe" or something which is either the second worst episode in Doctor Who history or joint worst with another shitty title. (actually, it's funny how probably my five if not ten least favourite episodes of doctor who have all been while Stephen Moffat was at the helm. Not surprising. :P)
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Old August 15 2013, 11:56 PM   #54
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Moffat still stunt casts, but I'd take John Hurt over Kylie Minogue or Michelle Ryan. He's actually a great actor.
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Old August 15 2013, 11:59 PM   #55
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Oh yeah, I admit Moffat (for once) has done something better than RTD by casting better guest stars. Yeah, John hurt is good, I liked him in V for Vendetta.

is Kylie Minogue even an actress???
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Old August 16 2013, 12:09 AM   #56
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Is she even a singer?
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Old August 16 2013, 01:34 AM   #57
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Kylie Minogue campaigned to be on the show as did a number of other actors, some of whom made it and others did not. But then Moffat has given us a parade of big names as well including David Warner among other this season.
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Old August 16 2013, 03:49 AM   #58
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Now that they're casting actors, casting has worked pretty well. They only cast a singer as someone who sings well, and looks very happy.
Starkers wrote: View Post
Actual giggling schoolgirls? Nothing. A 900 year old alien acting like a giggling schoolgirl? Plenty...
Ten seemed always immature, at least he was happy then. He always went with the flow, and when things went wrong, he put up a terrible appearance. It's not as wise as 900 years would suggest, yet it happened.
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sadly Freema just tended to blend into the background around chew the scenery Tennant...
That's the tragedy, the blackness makes it happen, when she was so close to being a wise healer person. Society.

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Old August 16 2013, 04:10 AM   #59
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Konata Izumi wrote: View Post
Updating into bs? Why?
Can't help you there, I thought it was terrific and I was thoroughly entertained by it.


TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
"The fantastic and the mundane cohabit" is one definition of science fiction in general, not just Doctor Who. That's a given, and that's not my point. It's RTD's focus in his storytelling that's the problem. What he thought was important about certain characters, what he thought the audience would like and get into, wasn't necessarily true. And it took him a long time to realize it.
With all due respect, I think you're making a wrong assumption here. Under RTD, Doctor Who the series, Rose the character and that particular storyline were very popular. Some very vocal fans have expressed a different opinion, but they are not "the audience" and therefore there was nothing for RTD to realize. I think he made the right choice and that it worked very well.

I would also argue that the blend of the fantastic and the mundane in Doctor Who is something that is very distinctive, and not just an iteration of a generic science-fiction trope.
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Old August 16 2013, 04:40 AM   #60
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Classic Who was rarely mundane in any way, but there was the very casual mood of the main character. Completely differently distinctive.
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