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Old August 14 2013, 07:27 PM   #91
Lindley
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

It's been the better part of a decade since I read God Emperor. Let me see if I can recall the essentials....


Is that about right?
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Old August 14 2013, 09:42 PM   #92
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

^Pretty much, you nailed it.
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Old August 14 2013, 09:45 PM   #93
The Wormhole
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

ATimson wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
The prequels are pulpy, throwaway Star Wars action novels.
Now, now. No need to insult Star Wars novels like that.
Actually, it's not really too far off the mark, since I think it was after reading one of Kevin J Anderson's Star Wars novels that Brian Herbert decided to select him as his co-author for the Dune prequels.
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Old August 14 2013, 10:08 PM   #94
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Actually, it's not really too far off the mark, since I think it was after reading one of Kevin J Anderson's Star Wars novels that Brian Herbert decided to select him as his co-author for the Dune prequels.
Even if true, that doesn't mean that KJA's work is typical of the line.
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Old August 14 2013, 11:14 PM   #95
kirk55555
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Lindley wrote: View Post
It's been the better part of a decade since I read God Emperor. Let me see if I can recall the essentials....


Is that about right?
I totally forgot about that.

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Old August 15 2013, 12:41 AM   #96
Set Harth
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I totally forgot about that.
Not only is kind of a big deal made about this in GE, but one needs to know it to fully comprehend what's going on in the next two.

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Because Guild navigators.

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You could honestly skip GE completely and read the rest of the books with only minor, nonessential problems.
Not really. Even if you could, I don't think you should.
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Old August 15 2013, 01:23 AM   #97
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
The Silmarillion is basically unreadable.
I've read it twenty times .

I'm sure there is a good story in there somewhere, but it needs someone to turn it into an actual book.
It's obviously not quite finished, but it's Tolkien's main work. He started it well before he even wrote The Hobbit. It's the major work of his oeuvre. The guy invented an entire mythology all on his own, and that is a towering achievement worthy of immense respect.
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Old August 15 2013, 01:40 AM   #98
Set Harth
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

I'm sure there is a good story in there somewhere, but it needs someone to turn it into an actual book.
It's more like an anthology of good stories, but they mostly have different groups of characters.
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Old August 15 2013, 01:53 AM   #99
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Yeah, it's a collection of great and beautiful stories. The life's work of a genius of language and mythology. It gets my vote as the best fantasy book out there, and I rank it up there with Dune as among my absolute favourite books to read.

I'm currently writing a sci-fi/fantasy novel, and every time I need inspiration I'll flick to a random page of The Silmarillion. Within moments, the spark is back in my brain.
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Old August 15 2013, 02:38 AM   #100
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
ATimson wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
The prequels are pulpy, throwaway Star Wars action novels.
Now, now. No need to insult Star Wars novels like that.
Actually, it's not really too far off the mark, since I think it was after reading one of Kevin J Anderson's Star Wars novels that Brian Herbert decided to select him as his co-author for the Dune prequels.
If I recall correctly it was Anderson who approached Brian Herbert.

Lindley wrote: View Post
It's been the better part of a decade since I read God Emperor. Let me see if I can recall the essentials....


Is that about right?
Paul and Leto essentially saw the same problem that humans under one rule and one Empire could be prone to being wiped out by one catastrophe such as Thinking Machines. In order to remedy that problem it was necessary to create the Scattering event and breed into humans an invisibility to prescience. That necessitated becoming the immortal ruler and guide of humanity by merging with the sandtrout, a sacrifice that Paul tried to avoid because he knew that it would eventually end not in death, but his consciousness trapped in all the sandtrout and sandworms.

Last edited by Hound of UIster; August 15 2013 at 03:06 AM.
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Old August 15 2013, 04:26 AM   #101
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

I read the Silmarillion prior to the Hobbit or LotR, and I was at first disappointed by the narrative structure of the later books. But then again I am something of a history nerd so there is that.

While the first three Dune books are my favorite, I have a special place in my heart for God Emperor. It goes beyond most epic sci-fi tales in telling the story of a single person who makes a conscious decision to guide human destiny, not for a few decades or a few centuries even, but for millennia. There is a not a human who has ever lived who could comprehend what it was like being Leto, a fact he tried to explain to both Duncan and Siona. God Emperor gets to the heart of what the Dune series is about: Unlike most sci-fi, which is about technology, or robots, or starships, the Dune series is about what it means to be human, what it means to be truly sentient. In a way, this is all laid out in the first chapter of the first book, when Reverend Mother Mohiam tests Paul. Are you really a human being? Can you rise above your animal instincts? Can you live at a higher level than mere existence?
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Old August 15 2013, 07:33 AM   #102
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

For me, the core of Dune was all about relationships. Not between the characters, but between society, ecology, politics, history and religion. It blows me away that Herbert was able to capture such a nuanced world, where every element is affected by another. Shaped my world-view considerably.
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Old August 15 2013, 07:50 AM   #103
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

It's kind of surprising that David Lynch didn't appear to get it -- or maybe that was studio interference.

ETA -- IMO the audio book versions, which are read by a cast, are the best dramatic version.
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Old August 15 2013, 01:52 PM   #104
The Wormhole
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
ATimson wrote: View Post
Now, now. No need to insult Star Wars novels like that.
Actually, it's not really too far off the mark, since I think it was after reading one of Kevin J Anderson's Star Wars novels that Brian Herbert decided to select him as his co-author for the Dune prequels.
If I recall correctly it was Anderson who approached Brian Herbert.
All I remember is that House Atreides has an introduction or some sort of note from Brian Herbert claiming that he read one of KJA's Star Wars novels to help him decide on working with him.

Unfortunately, House Atreides is the one Dune novel I don't own (I borrowed it from the library). Anyone with a copy of the novel hand able to clarify this matter?
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Old August 15 2013, 02:53 PM   #105
Redfern
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Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Forgive the slight shift of topic, gang, but I have an "in story" techno-babble (or would that be a spice-babble?) question.

Like several of us in this discussion, I read the novels before seeing the Lynch adaptation. Actually, I felt motivated to read the original novel when I learned the film project was finally underway. (There were several false starts including one that would have involved H.R. Giger providing the major designs...and we did get a few paintings from that failed attempt.) I was 21 or 22 at that time. I can't remember whether I read the next two in the series before or after I saw the movie. Hey, I'm 50 now and I've always been a tad absent minded, anyway. I'll be lucky to remember my own name by the time I hit 60.

Sorry, going on a tangent within my own post. Back to the point.

David Lynch gives viewers the impression that melange gave the Guild Nagivators the literal ability to "fold space" (as the phrase goes). In effect, they are biological "jump drives" or "warp engines". And it's the melange discovered on Arrakis that gave them this ability. Well, that's the impression he gave me.

But I inferred a very different concept from the books. The Spice doesn't give the Navigators the ability to teleport themselves and a portion of their surroundings (namely, the Guild highliners and their contents). Rather, it just gives them the ability to far enough into the near future to know where they need to be. They relay this information to "armies" of Second and First Stage Navigators who interpret this information into mathmatical formula, numbers that allow them to manually "tune" hardware akin to particle colliders. When finally activated, these colliders or engines creates a space-time distortion that teleports the highliner from star system A to star system B in the wink of an eye. Before the Butleran Jihad, the "tuning" (read: programming) of the engines was done by computers. Afterwards, when computers were outlawed, huge numbers of humans "hopped up" on Spice solved the equations and adjusted settings upon "dumb" hardware. When fully "tuned", somebody would "throw the switch" and the ferry would vanish from orbit around Corrino (or wherever) and reappear high over Arrakis.

But some with whom I've communicated feel the Navigators invoked the granddaddy of mentally assisted teleportations. If so, how did they do it before Arrakis was discovered and the infamous Spice?

Sincerely,

Bill
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