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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 14 2013, 07:45 PM   #736
Scotty
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
Is the opening shot in The Host, a CGI Enterprise???
Yup, it's CGI. That shot can be seen littered throughout season 4, though strangely not in the CBS-D episodes. Those ones used the blurry model shot.
The shot was created by CBS-D for "The Inner Light".

I just finished watching the final episodes on the set as well as the newly produced special features. I have to say I am extremely disappointed by the newly created VAM by Lay and Burnett. The roundtable discussion with the art department was a mess. Sure it's nice to listen to these people but what this discussion needed was a moderator to keep the discussion on topic. As has been mentioned before, they spent half the time of this 67 minute feature talking about the design challenges on Deep Space Nine (which Burnett should've cut from this and use for a possible DS9 blu ray release). Another 15 minutes they spent talking about Enterprise. Both the actors reunion and the writers roundtable were led by a moderator and it was sorely needed here.

The two part documentary Relativity : The Family Saga of Star Trek The Next Generation was equally disappointing. First of all, why do the docs have these ridiculously long titles. Just call it Stardate Revisited parts 9 and 10. Second, to me it seems that Lay and Burnett have exhausted all their worthwhile footage from their interviews and are now scraping the barrel. The first part focussing on the writers was on par with season 3. But the second part was just poor. There was no narrative, no structure, just soundbites from the cast that sometimes had nothing and most of the time very little to do with season 4. Stewart talking about George Hearn in Sweeney Todd, Spiner's baseball comparisons, Sirtis still going on about her hair. Wheaton going off on a hockey tangent, Dorn talking about going to get a haircut. Half of the time I was wondering what the fuck these people were talking about. Also every sentence spoken was intercut with scenes from the show so that the stories seemed even more disjointed.

I honestly love this remastering project and am immensely grateful that CBS is undertaking it. From an A/V standpoint season 4 was a success. But Lay and Burnett seriously need to up their game if they want to come close to the quality of their earlier efforts for the Blu Ray releases.
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Old August 14 2013, 07:52 PM   #737
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Scotty wrote: View Post
The shot was created by CBS-D for "The Inner Light".
And it looked pretty fake. The improved lighting seen in season 4 makes it appear much more real.

However, the telltale sign that it's CGI is still there in that it is perfectly sharp and defined when it's far away from the camera. The real model appears much softer farther away.
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Old August 14 2013, 08:04 PM   #738
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Scotty wrote: View Post
The shot was created by CBS-D for "The Inner Light".
And it looked pretty fake. The improved lighting seen in season 4 makes it appear much more real.

However, the telltale sign that it's CGI is still there in that it is perfectly sharp and defined when it's far away from the camera. The real model appears much softer farther away.
I hadn't noticed any improvement. It still looks very poor.
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Old August 14 2013, 09:23 PM   #739
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

So I watched the first disc.

Some thoughts (about the series up to this point):

* The show is exceptionally pretty for something produced in the early-90's. You can tell the folks really put a lot of love into the series.

* Brothers and Remember Me are much better than I remembered (especially the music). Family and Suddenly Human are dull.

* Jonathan Frakes is the weak link in the cast, far more than either Sirtis or Wheaton. His acting style, "80's constipation" factored with the fact that the character does nothing but stand around and state the obvious hurts the show. His character arc was done, I wish they had been brave enough to move the show in another direction.

* Burton and McFadden are both better actors than I remembered.
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Old August 14 2013, 10:22 PM   #740
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Scotty wrote: View Post
The shot was created by CBS-D for "The Inner Light".
And it looked pretty fake. The improved lighting seen in season 4 makes it appear much more real.

However, the telltale sign that it's CGI is still there in that it is perfectly sharp and defined when it's far away from the camera. The real model appears much softer farther away.
To me it was the blue glow of the warp engines that was the tell that it was CGI

-Chris
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Old August 14 2013, 10:24 PM   #741
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I watched the special features, I liked them. I do agree the art department feature could have used a moderator like the writing room doc did on season 3.


-Chris
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Old August 15 2013, 12:23 AM   #742
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

My only real complaint about the Art Dept one was that when it was over I felt like I'd watched Drexler gush over Zimmerman for an hour and the others had to just sit and listen to it.
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Old August 15 2013, 12:25 AM   #743
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
jimbotron wrote: View Post
Scotty wrote: View Post
The shot was created by CBS-D for "The Inner Light".
And it looked pretty fake. The improved lighting seen in season 4 makes it appear much more real.

However, the telltale sign that it's CGI is still there in that it is perfectly sharp and defined when it's far away from the camera. The real model appears much softer farther away.
To me it was the blue glow of the warp engines that was the tell that it was CGI

-Chris
The bussard collectors looked odd to me and gave it away that it was CGI.
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Old August 15 2013, 01:23 AM   #744
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Tosk wrote: View Post
My only real complaint about the Art Dept one was that when it was over I felt like I'd watched Drexler gush over Zimmerman for an hour and the others had to just sit and listen to it.
It just needed a good re-edit to smooth out the rough edges. It could have been a pretty decent 40-minute special.
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Old August 15 2013, 03:15 AM   #745
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

One thing is for sure, Gene was totally out of touch with reality during the making of the TNG. That seems to be the theme. I have no problem with that because Trek was usually at it's best when Gene wasn't directly involved. He also turned into a flaming lib during TNG and it shows some times, just wrecking the show. Same happened with Lucas when he totally sucked the mystic / mythical elements out of Star Wars with the prequels. Gene's whole vision of man wouldn't have conflict with one another is just unrealistic and insane. It ignores history. It also made for crappy storytelling.

-Chris
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Old August 15 2013, 08:47 AM   #746
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
One thing is for sure, Gene was totally out of touch with reality during the making of the TNG. That seems to be the theme. I have no problem with that because Trek was usually at it's best when Gene wasn't directly involved. He also turned into a flaming lib during TNG and it shows some times, just wrecking the show. Same happened with Lucas when he totally sucked the mystic / mythical elements out of Star Wars with the prequels. Gene's whole vision of man wouldn't have conflict with one another is just unrealistic and insane. It ignores history. It also made for crappy storytelling.

-Chris
That's kind of what "hope for the future" means, though. I had no problems with the "conflict from the outside" concept Gene had that makes for more creative story telling if you ask me.

It's easy to have the crew bickering and fighting with one another, it's not easy and more creative to have conflict come from other places.
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Old August 15 2013, 01:29 PM   #747
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
One thing is for sure, Gene was totally out of touch with reality during the making of the TNG. That seems to be the theme. I have no problem with that because Trek was usually at it's best when Gene wasn't directly involved. He also turned into a flaming lib during TNG and it shows some times, just wrecking the show. Same happened with Lucas when he totally sucked the mystic / mythical elements out of Star Wars with the prequels. Gene's whole vision of man wouldn't have conflict with one another is just unrealistic and insane. It ignores history. It also made for crappy storytelling.

-Chris
That's kind of what "hope for the future" means, though. I had no problems with the "conflict from the outside" concept Gene had that makes for more creative story telling if you ask me.

It's easy to have the crew bickering and fighting with one another, it's not easy and more creative to have conflict come from other places.

No, it makes it unrelatable to the audience because that isn't how we work as people. Utopia never can happen..as we saw on the original series it is a bad thing (The Apple, Return of the Archons, This Side of Paradise). In the real world they meltdown into dictatorships as the people with the vision wind up killing millions to achieve their version of utopia.

The original series was about bettering the individual, and promoting individual freedom. The TNG universe was a mess it didn't have a consistent message. They could be a bunch of elitist snobs sometimes just look at how racist they were to the Ferengi. Not very accepting of their culture. There were episodes just chock full of moral equivalence which is just a bunch of BS. Then there were episodes when they hit it out of the park - Drumhead, Offspring, Measure of a Man, Inner Light, Family.

Speaking of Family, it is interesting Gene didn't want them to do that episode. I think it was one of the best episodes of the series. It really humanized Picard and showed the effect that being assimilated had on him. I think Ira and RDM did a better job on DS9 in bringing back elements from the original series and running it through their stories. If the original series was wagon train to the stars, then DS9 was an old west town they stopped in.


-Chris
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Old August 15 2013, 02:44 PM   #748
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Starting with the first season all the way to the episode before "All Good Things", a majority of TNG episodes are ones I never really saw or remembered. Despite being a fan of TNG dating all the way back to the mid-90s, I've never seen Family, Brothers or Remember Me.

Going through all of Disc 1 and some of Disc 2, I've pretty much concluded that this whole "female equality" thing that TNG tries to portray (Suddenly Human) is a bunch of crap. With the exception of "Remember Me" (Which is now in my top 10), this season is so focused on the male characters that I found a moment in "Suddenly Human" to be borderline offensive when both Crusher and Troi seem contempt with not helping a human boy back into their society for no other reason than they're women. Because it's not like he's going to be dealing with women if he does fully re-integrate. And it gets worse. A lot of the female characters end up being shamed, turn out to be bad guy and/or dying just to add more depth to the male characters. "Legacy" totally curb stomped a potentially cool character with Tasha's sister (made all the more annoying by how predictable it was) so Data can have a moment, and "Reunion" is a bona fide example of the "Women in refrigerators" cliché by killing K'Ehleyr so Worf and Alexander can have a moment. And of course Alexander HAD to be a son because we want the audience to see him as Worf's child with his forehead looking exactly like Worf's Klingon forehead.

It's like the thought of any of the characters having a daughter or any female character going through some kind of character growth was looked at as the worst thing you could ever do on the show. We've had "Family" dealing with Picard's brother and Wesley dealing with his dead father, "Brothers" dealing with not one, but two groups of brothers with one dealing with Daddy issues, and later with Riker having a fake son. It was also nice for Data to not bring up Lal to Doctor Soong when he literally said "Well, I often hoped you might become a scientist. Perhaps even a cyberneticist."

I hardly ever say something like this, but WHAT THE HELL TNG??
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Old August 15 2013, 04:53 PM   #749
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
Speaking of Family, it is interesting Gene didn't want them to do that episode. I think it was one of the best episodes of the series. It really humanized Picard and showed the effect that being assimilated had on him.
I thought Family was a cop-out.

Picard's redemption for what happened should've been a long-running thread through the remainder of the series. We should've seen the back room whispers about how a man can be trusted that killed 40,000 of his own.

They trot it out from time to time, but between those few times, it is the same Picard we always know with no ill effects from what happened to him. IMO.
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Old August 15 2013, 05:34 PM   #750
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

BillJ wrote: View Post
I thought Family was a cop-out.

Picard's redemption for what happened should've been a long-running thread through the remainder of the series. We should've seen the back room whispers about how a man can be trusted that killed 40,000 of his own.

They trot it out from time to time, but between those few times, it is the same Picard we always know with no ill effects from what happened to him. IMO.
Star Trek was never that kind of show. The fact that the writers devoted an entire episode in which they acknowlegde Picard's traumatic experience and have him come to terms with it, was a Trek first and went against the wishes of Roddenberry. At least give the writers credit for that. Star Trek TNG was episodic by nature, so events from one episode had little impact on subsequent episodes. All Star Trek shows were like this, so to criticize the show for it now seems pointless.

Even Deep Space Nine, the first Trek series that had any kind of serialized storytelling, also dropped major character development in favor of the episodic structure of the show. For example O'Brein's traumatic prison experience in season four's "Hard Times" was forgotten the next week and never mentioned again.
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