RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,411
Posts: 5,359,896
Members: 24,630
Currently online: 486
Newest member: DasGeneral


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 11 2013, 09:12 PM   #61
DarKush
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Just to put in my two cents:

I thought the Lynch film had the better production design. I don't think I could better imagine many of the costumes, ships, and even actors than what we got in the Lynch film. However I do think the SyFy miniseries gave the story more appropriate time. I also think some of the actors rivaled their Lynch counterparts, and arguably the Harkonnens exceeded them. The miniseries production design was weird but I give them props for trying to be out there, for making it different than what we had seen before with Lynch's film. I also liked the expanded role for Irulan and for Shaddam's sister in Children of Doom. From what I recall, I don't remember her being as prominent in the books.

As for the Frank Herbert novels, I loved the first three novels. God Emperor of Dune was the dividing line for me. I hated that book though I toughed it out, and it took me 15 years-off mostly and on a little-to complete it. I tried Heretics and I just didn't care about those characters. So I put that down and gave it away, along with Chapter House.

With Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson, I liked the House books a lot, particularly House Atreides. House Harkonnen was the weakest of the trilogy, unfortunately, and House Corrino was a decent close. I couldn't get into the Butlerian Jihad and wasn't interested in the post-Chapter House stories. I started reading Paul of Dune and found it interesting but haven't finished it. I think it's that time period shortly before and during Herbert's original three books that interest me the most. Going too far into the future or past don't interest me.

The Brian Herbert books aren't as good as his fathers, but I did find them easier to digest and some of them had some pretty awesome quotes/passages at the beginning of each chapter. And I liked how Brian's books gave us more of Duke Leto's past since he gets scant attention in the original Dune.
DarKush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 09:41 PM   #62
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Gallifrey Falls
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

DarKush wrote:
I tried Heretics and I just didn't care about those characters.
It took me a while to adjust to the Bene Gesserit as the protagonists in Frank's last two books. Then again, by that point who else is left?
__________________
"In the future... do I make it?"
"No."
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11 2013, 11:03 PM   #63
Daddy Todd
Captain
 
Daddy Todd's Avatar
 
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

arch101 wrote: View Post
Daddy Todd wrote: View Post
arch101 wrote: View Post
I only hope they do all 4 original books next time.
Herbert wrote 6 Dune novels before his death:
Dune
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune
God Emperor of Dune
Heretics of Dune
Chapterhouse: Dune
I know, I've read them all. I just feel that the first 4 books are more closely linked than the last 2, regardless of Idaho clones.
I interpreted "all 4 original books" to be an indication that you believed Frank Herbert had only written 4 Dune novels ("original" being a way to delineate them from the Brian Herbert/KJH work that came decades later.)

Your reference to "the first 4" in your later post better conveys what you intended.
Daddy Todd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 12:17 AM   #64
Shaka Zulu
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Bulawayo Military Krral
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

sidious618 wrote: View Post
In Lynch's defense, there's so much plot that making it into a workable two hour movie would be impossible.
To be brutally frank, Lynch, DeLaurentis, and Universal should have made this movie into a 10-part miniseries; the long version of the movie's a lot better for putting the scenes that were cut out of it back into it.
Shaka Zulu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 03:56 AM   #65
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

DarKush wrote: View Post
Heretics and I just didn't care about those characters. So I put that down and gave it away, along with Chapter House.
The problem I have with the second half of the Frank Herbert series is that God Emperor starts off several thousand years after Children and completely changes the Dune universe. Which is fine, but then Heretics is another couple thousand of years and totally changes the universe again. Which I thought was rather exhausting, especially when reading the books within a month of each other.

With Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson, I liked the House books a lot, particularly House Atreides. House Harkonnen was the weakest of the trilogy, unfortunately, and House Corrino was a decent close. I couldn't get into the Butlerian Jihad and wasn't interested in the post-Chapter House stories. I started reading Paul of Dune and found it interesting but haven't finished it. I think it's that time period shortly before and during Herbert's original three books that interest me the most. Going too far into the future or past don't interest me.

The Brian Herbert books aren't as good as his fathers, but I did find them easier to digest and some of them had some pretty awesome quotes/passages at the beginning of each chapter. And I liked how Brian's books gave us more of Duke Leto's past since he gets scant attention in the original Dune.
I think the Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson novels are unfairly criticised by fans. Maybe if you look at them as their own novels without comparing them to Frank Herbert's you can see them as entertaining novels in their own right. Though admittedly as prequels they take a bit too many liberties.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 04:21 AM   #66
Hound of UIster
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
I think the Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson novels are unfairly criticised by fans. Maybe if you look at them as their own novels without comparing them to Frank Herbert's you can see them as entertaining novels in their own right.
How is that unfair to compare their works to the original author given they claimed to be using his original notes and ideas and were writing in his original universe? If they wanted to avoid the unfair comparisons then perhaps they should have written and done their own thing instead of piggybacking on Frank Herbert's work, but then nobody would have bought their books if they hadn't set the books in the dune universe.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote:
I tried Heretics and I just didn't care about those characters.
It took me a while to adjust to the Bene Gesserit as the protagonists in Frank's last two books. Then again, by that point who else is left?
Duncan Idaho?
Hound of UIster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 11:58 AM   #67
lurok
Commodore
 
lurok's Avatar
 
Location: Lost in the EU expanse with a nice cup of tea
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

I did find it hilarious when they brought back practically everyone in Sandworms Of Dune.

I don't mind the BH/KJA books as much as some fans, but they do feel all-plot and very little insight/perspicacity.
__________________
"Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha"
lurok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 02:30 PM   #68
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Gallifrey Falls
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

I won't go near them.

For me it's "go Frank or go home".
__________________
"In the future... do I make it?"
"No."
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12 2013, 10:39 PM   #69
Cyrus
Rear Admiral
 
Cyrus's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

I have to say upfront that I am not a big fan of Frank Herbert. I thought the book was just OK. I read the first 4 books, but it was kind of a struggle. My interest level dropped with each book, and with book 5 I gave up after around 100 pages. And this was during my younger days when I was more of hardcore scifi book reader. If I try today I may not finish the first book.

I thought the movie had some good moments but overall it was pretty bad. I did like both of the Sci-Fi Channel miniseries.
Cyrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13 2013, 10:06 AM   #70
DarKush
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

^
That's funny because I liked Frank Herbert but I too gave up on the fifth book. The dividing line for me was God Emperor. Such a slog to read.

I still think the Dune universe Herbert created is fascinating and would love to see it get a Game of Thrones style HBO, Showtime, or Starz treatment one day.
DarKush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13 2013, 10:14 AM   #71
DarKush
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote: View Post
Heretics and I just didn't care about those characters. So I put that down and gave it away, along with Chapter House.
The problem I have with the second half of the Frank Herbert series is that God Emperor starts off several thousand years after Children and completely changes the Dune universe. Which is fine, but then Heretics is another couple thousand of years and totally changes the universe again. Which I thought was rather exhausting, especially when reading the books within a month of each other.

With Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson, I liked the House books a lot, particularly House Atreides. House Harkonnen was the weakest of the trilogy, unfortunately, and House Corrino was a decent close. I couldn't get into the Butlerian Jihad and wasn't interested in the post-Chapter House stories. I started reading Paul of Dune and found it interesting but haven't finished it. I think it's that time period shortly before and during Herbert's original three books that interest me the most. Going too far into the future or past don't interest me.

The Brian Herbert books aren't as good as his fathers, but I did find them easier to digest and some of them had some pretty awesome quotes/passages at the beginning of each chapter. And I liked how Brian's books gave us more of Duke Leto's past since he gets scant attention in the original Dune.
I think the Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson novels are unfairly criticised by fans. Maybe if you look at them as their own novels without comparing them to Frank Herbert's you can see them as entertaining novels in their own right. Though admittedly as prequels they take a bit too many liberties.
Perhaps you misunderstand me but I'm not bashing Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson. I enjoyed their House Series and would like to finish Paul of Dune and Winds of Dune eventually. However the further they got away from the main Dune storyline of the first three books the less interested I became. Granted it was the same for Frank Herbert's later Dune works as well.

I disagree with you about not comparing them to the Frank Herbert novels though. Especially the House Series which is a prequel to Dune and the Paul and Wind books which are in betweens for Messiah and Children (I believe). The books were only written because of Frank Herbert's previous novels and part of their appeal is shedding more light on the characters and events leading up to or occurring during or around the stuff that happened in Frank Herbert's books.

I think it's easier to not compare the Butlerian Jihad series to Frank Herbert's books, but not so sure about Sandworms since I think that's a sequel to Chapter House (?).

From the Brian Herbert books I've read, I thought they were interesting reads for the most part and it was great revisiting some of my favorite characters and planets. Though the level of writing didn't have Frank Herbert's depth. However the newer novels were more like books you would read at the beach, which was fine with me.
DarKush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13 2013, 02:01 PM   #72
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

DarKush wrote: View Post
Perhaps you misunderstand me but I'm not bashing Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson. I enjoyed their House Series and would like to finish Paul of Dune and Winds of Dune eventually. However the further they got away from the main Dune storyline of the first three books the less interested I became. Granted it was the same for Frank Herbert's later Dune works as well.

I disagree with you about not comparing them to the Frank Herbert novels though. Especially the House Series which is a prequel to Dune and the Paul and Wind books which are in betweens for Messiah and Children (I believe). The books were only written because of Frank Herbert's previous novels and part of their appeal is shedding more light on the characters and events leading up to or occurring during or around the stuff that happened in Frank Herbert's books.
Actually, I was speaking generally. Brian Herbert and KJA's books are usually universally panned by fans, which I think is unfair since they are mostly half decent books. True they might not be in the same league as Frank Herbert's, but they're decent reads all the same.

And I happen to agree with your assessment of them. The House trilogy is pretty decent, the Jihad trilogy not so much. The Hunters of Dune/Sandworms of Dune duology is pretty good even if Sandworms has a certain revelation which I understand doesn't sit well among fans. I even enjoy Paul of Dune, Winds of Dune and Sisterhood of Dune even if they maybe prequels too far.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13 2013, 04:54 PM   #73
Colonel Midnight
Vice Admiral
 
Colonel Midnight's Avatar
 
Location: Colonel Midnight
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

The thing that drives me far and quickly away from the "Pinky and the Brain" (sorry, just can't resist -- love that tagline ) books is their particular writing style.

IMO, If you're going to write in the Dune universe (especially the "Dune 7 finale")... then at least TRY to mimic the style of Frank Herbert to some extent, which was somewhat similar to what Isaac Asimov did in the Foundation series -- very rarely does full-on action take center stage, it's usually after the fact, or more contemplative or interlaced with the character's thoughts at the time.

Instead, with the newer books by Pinky and the Brain, you get to read firsthand about meks pulping brains as they go by, arms and legs being ripped off and flying about, etc. In a word, YUCK. It's a jarring transition, in short. About the only thing they copied from Herbert Sr. are the quotes at the beginning of each chapter -- and even those fall short. The chapter quotes from the "original" Dune books really made you think and pulled you into the universe, making it a richer environment. Not so much with the newer books.

And the less we say about their so-called "intricate plots and twists" (which practically shout themselves off the page)... the better.

Cheers,
-CM-
__________________
FOReWARneD is Forearmed.

0 registered and 0 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Colonel Midnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13 2013, 06:18 PM   #74
Hound of UIster
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

They really lacked his knowledge and interest in ecology, religion and history to pull off any decent attempt at doing a Dune novel.
Hound of UIster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13 2013, 06:45 PM   #75
kirk55555
Fleet Captain
 
kirk55555's Avatar
 
Re: Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

As much as I like Frank Herbert, and enjoy almost every Dune book, the House series of Prequels were better than Herberts books after Children of Dune. Thats not to say I don't like God Emperor and later books (inlcuding the Brian Herbert/KA books finishing the series) because I dso like them, but House atreides/Harkonnen/Corrino are really good. not quite as good as Dune/Messiah/CoD, but still really good and a close second to those books. Besides the Butlarian Jihand/Sisterhood prequels set thousands of years in the past, I enjoy all of the BH/KA Dune books.
kirk55555 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.