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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old August 12 2013, 10:41 PM   #31
Green Lantern
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Xmas Invasion is not a good star for any doctor. David Tenants first episode, and he's not even fucking in it!

New Earth was just pathetic, Tennant's first actual episode where he gets any bloody screen time, and it's shit. That gay zombie nurse guy, an bringing back one of the worst villains from series 1 (although she was okay in S1, but she was appalling in series 2)
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Old August 13 2013, 02:27 AM   #32
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
David Tenants first episode, and he's not even fucking in it!
If he was doing that, it wouldn't be a family show any more!

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Old August 13 2013, 02:40 AM   #33
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

I didn't care very much for Tennant at first (I didn't really love him until S3), and Christmas Invasion certainly didn't help. He was barely in the damn thing. And the dickish way he treats poor Harriet Jones was very unsympathetic.
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Old August 13 2013, 08:19 AM   #34
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

The Tennant-lite aspect of The Christmas Invasion was the most annoying aspect. We're all excited about a new Doctor and he's in bed the entire time. The Eleventh Hour is by far the better of the post Regen Stories, at least he's awake and animated and doing stuff. We can only hope that Capaldi isn't in bed or a bloody zero room or something for his first story. I think that's just a waste.
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Old August 13 2013, 11:02 AM   #35
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
David Tenants first episode, and he's not even fucking in it!
If he was doing that, it wouldn't be a family show any more!

Mr Awe
lol.

Twist my words.
Mitty wrote: View Post
The Tennant-lite aspect of The Christmas Invasion was the most annoying aspect. We're all excited about a new Doctor and he's in bed the entire time. The Eleventh Hour is by far the better of the post Regen Stories, at least he's awake and animated and doing stuff. We can only hope that Capaldi isn't in bed or a bloody zero room or something for his first story. I think that's just a waste.
Yeah, I think Eleventh Hour is by far the best post regeneration story. And still holds up as one of the best Smith stories.

The Spearhead from Space was alright, Robot was alright but weird, Castrovalva was absolute crap (real let down after the fantastic Keeper of Traken and Logopolis), Twin Dilemma was just weird, the 96 movie was brilliant (although only because it's a McGann story, McCoy's role is not really fair for him to go out on), then we have to jump to Xmas invasion which is terrible (a shame as I liked the Sykorax, in a better story they could have been great), then we jump to the first decent post regeneration story in decades with the Eleventh Hour.

Note I have not seen Troughtons first one as it is lost to time, and I've not seen Time and the Rani either which would probably also be shit.
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Old August 13 2013, 02:22 PM   #36
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

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Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
David Tenants first episode, and he's not even fucking in it!
If he was doing that, it wouldn't be a family show any more!

Mr Awe
lol.

Twist my words.
Just a joke! I agree with the sentiment though. Not sure why Doctor Who history has several examples of post-generation stories where the Doctor is unavailable (Spearhead, Castrovalva, Xmas Invasion).

For that first story, you really just want to meet the Doctor.

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Old August 13 2013, 02:55 PM   #37
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Was Troughton a bit doddery in his first story as well? I guess if every molecule of my body/personality had just been rewritten I'd be a little out of sorts too...

Did the 4th Doctor arrive pretty much fully formed personality wise? I can't recall...
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Old August 13 2013, 03:10 PM   #38
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Starkers wrote: View Post
Was Troughton a bit doddery in his first story as well? I guess if every molecule of my body/personality had just been rewritten I'd be a little out of sorts too...

Did the 4th Doctor arrive pretty much fully formed personality wise? I can't recall...
Troughton was a little jumbled for a little bit, but, not as bad as future Regenerations (And this actually makes sense, because Doctor 1 simply died of old age, he laid down and regenerated, whereas, the rest mostly all died in some kind of Trauma (Two's Regeneration was forced upon him, which seemed to have that same traumatic affect)

Doctor Four, was jumbled, but, not absent from the episode, and not as bad as some others (Three was literally dying and he was helped to Regenerate by another Time Lord who was in the Final Pertwee story)
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Old August 13 2013, 03:19 PM   #39
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Starkers wrote: View Post
Was Troughton a bit doddery in his first story as well? I guess if every molecule of my body/personality had just been rewritten I'd be a little out of sorts too...

Did the 4th Doctor arrive pretty much fully formed personality wise? I can't recall...
The logic within the story might suggest that the character would be out of sorts . . . but as a viewer, I just want to see him in action!

Robot wasn't the best story but my recollection is that Tom Baker was pretty much in character from the get-go!

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Old August 13 2013, 03:52 PM   #40
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

I didn't watch the first two seasons live, so the first Tennant episode I saw was The Girl in the Fireplace. Given this, the Christmas episode to me wasn't "when will I finally see the Doctor?" it was "The Doctor needs to recover to save the day." Given that, his absence added to the drama (which otherwise would have been completely missing in an episode that wasn't overly exciting). I realize that, for those who were watching it as their introduction to Tennant, it falls a bit flat. However, his absence, to me, fit the story rather than detracted from the story.
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Old August 13 2013, 05:55 PM   #41
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Coming in at the Christmas Special was a tough way to introduce a new Doctor. To be honest I felt the way RTD introduced Doctors wasn't as special as Mofs. RTD was kinda 'on with the show' and I have always felt those earlier seasons were more through the companion's eyes, not the Doctors. When 11 showed up there was a slight shift in the series and it was more about the Doctor and how he needed and saw his companions.
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Old August 13 2013, 08:39 PM   #42
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

It's hardly surprising that 'The Christmas Invasion' was light on The Doctor, since Rose was the star of the two series that she appeared in. Those two series were totally about her: being stuck in life, finding confidence and purpose, etc. It was only when The Doctor was on his own during The Christmas Bride that he emerged as the star of the show.

The same is true, though in a less heavily slanted way, about Eleven and Amy Pond. He spends their entire run together reacting to the circumstances of her life, rather any impulses or desires of his own.
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Old August 13 2013, 11:21 PM   #43
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Saul wrote: View Post
Coming in at the Christmas Special was a tough way to introduce a new Doctor. To be honest I felt the way RTD introduced Doctors wasn't as special as Mofs. RTD was kinda 'on with the show' and I have always felt those earlier seasons were more through the companion's eyes, not the Doctors. When 11 showed up there was a slight shift in the series and it was more about the Doctor and how he needed and saw his companions.
While I think you're correct about how it started, I felt like the change occurred before that point. To me, it started with the end of Martha's tenure. The Doctor on the Titanic and the Doctor meeting up with Donna for the second time were definitely through the Doctor's perspective. This trend continued through the loss of Donna, the specials, and the End of Time.
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Old August 15 2013, 07:44 AM   #44
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
While I think you're correct about how it started, I felt like the change occurred before that point. To me, it started with the end of Martha's tenure. The Doctor on the Titanic and the Doctor meeting up with Donna for the second time were definitely through the Doctor's perspective. This trend continued through the loss of Donna, the specials, and the End of Time.
I think I agree with that assessment. With Donna on as a full-time companion, RTD finally seemed to realize that there didn't need to be a romance angle for the show to work or resonate with an audience. And that while having a "contemporary, relatable character" is a good thing, it's not necessary for that character to be the center of attention.

Having just finished watching "Doomsday" and thus coming to the end of Series Two, I can say with utter conviction it's my least favorite season of the show. "Tooth and Claw," "School Reunion" and "The Girl In the Fireplace" are the only episodes where it actually seems as if the Doctor is more important than Rose. We could argue "The Idiot's Lantern," but honestly, it's Rose that follows the right clues and figures out what's going on, and the Doctor wasn't all that worried about things until Rose got her face eaten off.

The first two series of NuWho are really the story of Rose Tyler, and the Doctor is just the vehicle for her misadventures as much as the TARDIS is for his. It's more of an even split in the first series, and that vibe worked fine, but starting with The Christmas Invasion and carrying through right on up until Doomsday, Billie Piper is the lead and David Tennant is along for the ride. Maybe it took that turn because Billie Piper had a bankable fanbase and David Tennant was hardly a household name at that point.

But ultimately, it's Davies falling into the trap that most writers of modern sci-fi film and television do: thinking that the audience can't understand something otherworldly or relate to it unless we see it through a surrogate's eyes. That notion is complete and total bullshit, but it's become the rule, the formula, in so much of the genre.

As much as I love Martha Jones as a character, and Freema Agyeman as an actress, the trend very much continues in Series Three. I understand why a lot of people don't like Martha, and can't see her strength; Davies made the horrible mistake of essentially building the character to act as if she was just a "replacement Rose" who failed to win the Doctor's heart. The unrequited crush is an albatross around the character's neck. I can get past it and see the good there, but I understand why many others can't.

Anyhow, tomorrow I'll start with The Runaway Bride and probably get one or two episodes into Series Three. 13 episodes where I don't have to put up with Blondie the Chav, at least. And Moffat and Cornell's finest hours to look forward to. That'll see me through.
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Old August 15 2013, 01:09 PM   #45
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Re: The Nearly-Disastrous Start to the David Tennant Era

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
But ultimately, it's Davies falling into the trap that most writers of modern sci-fi film and television do: thinking that the audience can't understand something otherworldly or relate to it unless we see it through a surrogate's eyes. That notion is complete and total bullshit, but it's become the rule, the formula, in so much of the genre.
Actually, he was just updating the Doctor Who formula, in which the fantastic and the mundane cohabit in pretty much every story.
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