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View Poll Results: was V'Ger related to the Borg?
Y 9 10.34%
N 78 89.66%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 13 2013, 10:31 AM   #16
Belz...
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Nah. Doesn't fit.

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
TMP is the only Trek film I've never seen so can't comment on how appropriate it would be.
Really ? What are you waiting for ?

But everything else in the universe is humans' fault, I refuse to accept that the Borg are the humans fault too. Not everything in the galaxy has to revolve around humans.
Eh ?
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Old August 13 2013, 01:24 PM   #17
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
My god, V'ger was upgraded by the Transformers...
Though V'Ger's home world does look very like Cybertron, and the vocalisation effect done on the Illia Probe's voice is very like that done to the actors playing the Transformers (I wouldn't be surprised if both had an influence on the cartoon five years later). With IDW having the licence to both properties, let the mad comic crossover begin!
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Old August 13 2013, 01:35 PM   #18
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Regarding V'Ger, I have heard an interesting theory that the singularity that Voyager 6 passed through deposited it not just in a different part of the universe, but back in time, possibly thousands or millions of years. This would account for how V'Ger was able to explore the entire universe in so short a span of time since leaving Earth.

As for the idea that the machine planet in TMP was the Borg homeworld......I don't think it was the Borg that discovered Voyager 6, but there is an intriguing line in the Nero comic mini-series, where Nero, having encountered V'Ger, remarks that it and the Borg are both the offspring of this machine civilization (This is what draws the Narada to V'Ger, as the ship includes Borg technology, and thus regards V'Ger as a kind of "cousin"). I figure some renegade machine intelligences left the planet at some point in the distant past (whether it was before or after Voyager's rebirth as V'Ger, I can't say now) and journeyed to the Delta Quadrant, where they bonded themselves to organic lifeforms, thus eventually giving rise to the Borg.
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Old August 13 2013, 01:48 PM   #19
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Belz... wrote: View Post
But everything else in the universe is humans' fault, I refuse to accept that the Borg are the humans fault too. Not everything in the galaxy has to revolve around humans.
Eh ?
At the end of Destiny: Lost Souls, we learn that the first two Borg drones were...
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Old August 13 2013, 01:50 PM   #20
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Does anyone really believe it's in character for the Borg to take a primitive satellite which shows up in orbit of their homeworld, give it an AI with a god complex, task it with seeking its creator and build for it a huge ship which doesn't match anything in their design lineage and can generate its own nebula? Is this seriously how we think the Borg behave?
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Old August 13 2013, 04:21 PM   #21
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Does anyone really believe it's in character for the Borg to take a primitive satellite which shows up in orbit of their homeworld, give it an AI with a god complex, task it with seeking its creator and build for it a huge ship which doesn't match anything in their design lineage and can generate its own nebula? Is this seriously how we think the Borg behave?
The words "really believe" and "seriously" are too strong to describe how I feel, but the theory is that the Borg were something else then and were changed by the experience with V'Ger. In other words they too evolved to what they are "now" (meaning the 24th century).

Less belieaveble is that the borg were exactly the same since the beginning of time, specially considering they change very much in the time between Q Who and the last we saw then (VOY or FC?).
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Old August 13 2013, 04:27 PM   #22
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
.
I misread that as
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Old August 13 2013, 04:29 PM   #23
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

xvicente wrote: View Post
Going strictly by Canon won't help here. Roddenberry himself once said [citation needed] the machine planet was the Borg homeworld, he could be joking or not, ymmv.

But the concept is intriguing. I read some not-half-bad fanfic theorizing the machines were in contact with V'ger until the fusion with Decker -- when they lost contact they were intrigued by the disappearance and assimilated their first organic species -- until then they didnt do that-- trying to understand whet Vger had done with the human(s) - thus inventing and eventually becoming the Borg as we know it.

What's in your "personal canon", if such a thing exists?
I had imagined that episode where Kirk challenged those three disembodied brains into building a better society, would be the origin of the Borg.

After Kirk had "left", each of the three entities had striven for perfecting their submissals in beating out the other two entities in their discourse on how to build this better society, but having failed to reach a consensus, the entity that had come up with the idea of assimulation, ended the "impasse" by making the other two entities subjected to her.

This, in turn, became the necessary evil in making all subjects of this new society in compliance to the "Queen's" wishes.

The initial striving for perfection in this "Kirk-inspired" competition in submitting ideas for building this better society among the other two entities, became the sole purpose of this new society as they would always be assimulating better ideas and better subjects from other worlds in this pursuit in becoming a "better society".

And thus the Borg was born.
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Old August 13 2013, 04:44 PM   #24
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

At first, I was intrigued by the idea of a connection between V'Ger and the Borg, but not so much anymore. Transformers aside, I think there are quite a few life-forms somewhere out there in the Star Trek Universe that can be classified as machines rather than organic. We can even use the Cylon approach from Battlestar Galactica that some of them started off as machines created by organic beings that eventually developed the ability to continue without them.

"Machines creating machines..."
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Old August 13 2013, 04:56 PM   #25
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

xvicente wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
.
I misread that as
No no, I misspelled it, you're 100% right! (that's what I get for posting from my phone)

What happens is...

Read the Destiny trilogy of novels. They're utterly fantastic.
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Old August 13 2013, 07:34 PM   #26
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Eh. I didn't hate the explanation in the Star Trek: Legacy game.
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Old August 13 2013, 08:52 PM   #27
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

V'Ger had it's origins as an earth launched voyager probe.

In the trek literature continuity, V'Ger was modified by The Body Electric, an AI civilisation and one of the major players in the local cluster of galaxies. Plus, it views organics as not even properly alive.
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Old August 14 2013, 04:30 AM   #28
Tiberius
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Does anyone really believe it's in character for the Borg to take a primitive satellite which shows up in orbit of their homeworld, give it an AI with a god complex, task it with seeking its creator and build for it a huge ship which doesn't match anything in their design lineage and can generate its own nebula? Is this seriously how we think the Borg behave?
That and the whole "What are carbon units?" thing is why I don't buy the connection for a second.

Face it, there are lots of other things that are at least as similar to the Borg in classic Trek and yet aren't considered.

We have the Archons. The inhabitants are part of the Body (Collective), and anyone who is not of the Body is absorbed (assimilated). Whatever is seen by one can be seen by all, and they are all controlled by Landru (The Queen).

Or what about the Denevan neural parasites? They were physically separate, but all functioned together to make up one single brain, in much the same way as the drones in the Collective are all separate but all function together to make up the single individual that we know as the Borg Collective. In "I, Borg," Picard says, "Think of them as a single collective being."

Now, I'm not seriously proposing that either of these are the origin of the Borg. But since Trek had previously played around with collective consciousnesses before without being related to the Borg, why can't they also have cyberneetic beings without them being related to the Borg as well?
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Old August 16 2013, 03:57 AM   #29
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

V'ger is not the precursor to The Borg. Roddenberry didn't create The Borg.

Now The Cybermen as the precursor to the Borg. Yeah.

As a matter of fact I'm not sure how Star Trek was never sued by the BBC for the copyright infringement. The Borg and the Cybermen are too close!
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Old August 16 2013, 01:44 PM   #30
The Wormhole
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Re: V'Ger origins: Borg or not?

Anji wrote: View Post
As a matter of fact I'm not sure how Star Trek was never sued by the BBC for the copyright infringement. The Borg and the Cybermen are too close!
For starters, the BBC doesn't own the Cybermen. Kit Peddler and Gerry Davis do.
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