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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old August 10 2013, 11:12 PM   #16
Christopher
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Re: Early TOS novels

I've addressed what happened after the post-TMP mission in Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again, but I haven't said anything about how it actually ended.
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Old August 11 2013, 12:27 AM   #17
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Re: Early TOS novels

Thanks christopher and speaking of your Mere Anarchy, I have what might be considered an unusual question.

When you write a story that's part of a mini-series do you consider the mini-series title as part of the title of your story? For example, in your mind is the story named Mere Anarchy: the Darkness Drops Again or is it just The Darkness Drops Again?

Like I said, just an oddball question that I thought it would be cool to get an authors perspective on.
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Old August 11 2013, 01:25 AM   #18
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Re: Early TOS novels

Well, its full title is Mere Anarchy Book 4: The Darkness Drops Again, but either of the alternatives can be used for brevity. I don't really have strong feelings about that title because it's the one title of any of my published works that I didn't come up with. It was KRAD who assigned the titles for the miniseries.
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Old August 11 2013, 02:07 AM   #19
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Re: Early TOS novels

Christopher wrote: View Post
It was KRAD who assigned the titles for the miniseries.
That's interesting, it never occurred to me that anyone would name a story except its author. How often has that happened to you. Does it bother you when it happens or do you just see it as part of the job?
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Old August 11 2013, 02:42 AM   #20
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Re: Early TOS novels

Jsplinis wrote: View Post
That's interesting, it never occurred to me that anyone would name a story except its author. How often has that happened to you. Does it bother you when it happens or do you just see it as part of the job?
As I said already, that's the only title that wasn't my idea. I've had some of my title preferences rejected by my editors, but I've come up with alternatives, and in every case except TDDA, the final title has been one of my suggestions even if it wasn't always my favorite choice. It's part of the job that writers and editors disagree on things sometimes, but there's always room for negotiation, because we're both trying to make the work better.
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Old August 11 2013, 03:16 AM   #21
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Re: Early TOS novels

Christopher wrote: View Post
As I said already, that's the only title that wasn't my idea.
Yep, you did say that already. I read the post while distracted and I missed that part. Thanks for the info.
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Old August 11 2013, 04:20 PM   #22
Greg Cox
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Re: Early TOS novels

Jsplinis wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
It was KRAD who assigned the titles for the miniseries.
That's interesting, it never occurred to me that anyone would name a story except its author. How often has that happened to you. Does it bother you when it happens or do you just see it as part of the job?
Oh, titles change all the time . . . and lots of people are involved in the discussion: the author, the editor, the sales department, the licensor, etc. As an editor, I'm perfectly comfortable telling an author "Marketing hates your title. We need to come up with something better."

In my own case:

THE BLACK SHORE was originally titled PARADISE. (We changed it to avoid confusion with another VOYAGER novel, THE GARDEN, which was coming out around the same time.)

THE EUGENICS WARS was originally ASSIGNMENT: ARMAGEDDON and was briefly just KHAN: THE NOVEL . . . .

TO REIGN IN HELL was originally THE EUGENICS WARS: VOLUME THREE.

THE WEIGHT OF WORLDS was originally THE TWILIGHT REALM.

And, I just remembered, my editor invented all the titles for THE Q CONTINUUM books. In fact, that whole project began because John Ordover thought that THE Q CONTINUUM would be a great title for a trilogy--and asked me to come up with a plot to fit the title!

No title is set in stone until the catalog comes out, and working titles are usually just that . . .

(I took part in a fun panel on this topic at Norwescon a few years ago and, yeah, every author and/or editor on the panel had plenty of good stories to tell about titles that went through strange transformations.)
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Old August 11 2013, 08:06 PM   #23
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Re: Early TOS novels

And yet sometimes a book comes out with the working titles also making it into print (and not just as a subtitle).
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Old August 11 2013, 08:22 PM   #24
Greg Cox
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Re: Early TOS novels

It's worth noting that this is not just a book thing. Don't forget, THE WRATH OF KHAN was, at various points, going to be titled THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY or THE VENGEANCE OF KHAN before they settled on WRATH.

Same deal with books. It's not at all uncommon to throw multiple titles back and forth before you find one everybody is happy with. True story: I recently acquired a novel for Tor with the understanding that, "You know this title is going to change, right?"

(Just to be clear, I have never unilaterally changed an author's title without their consent, or had the same done to me, but I have been known to twist arms on occasion!)

And that's not counting foreign editions and translations. Strange things can happen to titles when they cross international borders . . .
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Old August 11 2013, 11:11 PM   #25
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Re: Early TOS novels

^I've had titles rejected, but always been given the option to suggest alternatives. But Mere Anarchy was a special case, since Keith made the decision to give all the stories titles from Yeats's "The Second Coming" before we even wrote them.

Actually, I just checked the old e-mails, and Keith suggested a set of titles from that poem, but let us decide which lines we wanted to use. Although ultimately every story except Book 3 ended up using Keith's suggested title. (His suggestion was Passionate Intensity, but when Dave Galanter suggested Shadows of the Indignant, Keith liked that even better.) I did suggest Spiritus Mundi as an alternative title for mine, thinking it might work better than The Darkness Drops Again, but Keith said he preferred to avoid foreign titles, and evidently I accepted that without further comment.
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Old August 11 2013, 11:32 PM   #26
Greg Cox
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Re: Early TOS novels

On the other hand, there was never any talk of changing Only Superhuman, which I always thought was a great title.
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Old August 11 2013, 11:51 PM   #27
Christopher
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Re: Early TOS novels

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
On other hand, there was never any talk of changing Only Superhuman, which I always thought was a great title.
Although that title went through a journey of its own. My original spec novel about Emerald Blair was just called Troubleshooter, and I came up with Only Superhuman as the title for a possible indirect sequel set centuries later and revisiting some ideas from the Troubleshooter era. Then, I eventually decided that Troubleshooter was too vague and not sufficiently science-fictiony for that novel, so I renamed it Only Superhuman when I did the umpteenth major revision of it -- but midway into that revision, I realized the book just wasn't working and I needed to abandon it and start over from scratch. But the new novel that resulted was called Only Superhuman from the get-go.

I think the title that's come most easily to me, of my published works, may have been Forgotten History. That occurred to me in my first half-hour of thinking about the concept and it never changed.
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Old August 11 2013, 11:59 PM   #28
Greg Cox
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Re: Early TOS novels

Silly me, I resisted TO REIGN IN HELL for the third Khan book because it initially struck me as "too obvious," but Ordover eventually convinced me that, obvious or not, it was the only conceivable title for that particular book.

And sometimes you stumble onto the right title by accident. Take my sci-fi vampire anthology, TOMORROW SUCKS. I swear to God that title started out as a joke . . . .
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Old August 12 2013, 02:48 PM   #29
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Re: Early TOS novels

Of course DS9#17 still takes the title of having two titles for the same book in print at the same time, since you have the book title The Heart Of The Warrior, but then you open the book to the Historian's Note which states:

The Trojan Spaceship takes place in the fourth season of STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE.

And of course you are left wondering when you read the book whether you are reading the right book or if the publisher accidentally put the wrong cover on the book pages.
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Old August 12 2013, 03:23 PM   #30
Greg Cox
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Re: Early TOS novels

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Of course DS9#17 still takes the title of having two titles for the same book in print at the same time, since you have the book title The Heart Of The Warrior, but then you open the book to the Historian's Note which states:

The Trojan Spaceship takes place in the fourth season of STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE.

And of course you are left wondering when you read the book whether you are reading the right book or if the publisher accidentally put the wrong cover on the book pages.
Or, more likely, they changed the title at the last minute and somebody forgot to update the Historian's Note . . . .
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