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Old July 30 2013, 01:45 PM   #31
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

Time travel is my all time favorite theme, plot, fantasy.
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Old July 30 2013, 07:38 PM   #32
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

I don't have a problem with time travel stories either although I was never a fan of the TCW storylines. With respect to Ent's space Nazi's, if they had not gone back to 1940's Earth and had just dropped them into a different century or decade, I would have questioned using them too. But that didn't happen. By incorporating a story which involved traveling back to the time of the Nazi's, I thought their use was appropriate.

I also loved that use of the Nazi's at the start of the season set up a very nice ironic bookend for Terra Prime/Demons', exploration of man's natural propensity for hatred and distrust of those who are different -- even "enlightened" 22nd century man.
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Old August 12 2013, 03:02 AM   #33
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

What I hate most about Ent's finale is they spent all that money rendering the Ent-D in CGI in all her HD glory, so much so that the rest of the ep becomes a bottle show and you don't even see any exterior shot of the NX-01 at all until the final shot of the entire damn series.

I love the Ent-D really, but when it came to the final threat of the series being shown with no exterior shots of the battle scene, just the aliens randomly showing up in the docking bay without seeing how the Enterprise was overpowered, it just seemed cheap.

The final shot should've been it warping off to new adventures too, not a glory shot around some nebula...

TBH I hate it all apart from the montage....
Showing Archer being the originator of the "Space....the final frontier..." speech instead of cutting away would've been a nice touch, but obviously they thought that was too good for this ep!
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Old August 12 2013, 04:09 AM   #34
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

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I just finished watching the last episode of ENT (finally!) after watching it for the first time this past month or so.

I know a lot of people tend to dislike TATV, but I am not sure why? It was one of the only episodes in the series that made me tear up/cry. It kind of closed up everything nicely, had very moving scenes, and seemed pretty powerful to me. I also cried at the previous episode, that I think may have been more well-done, "Terra Prime". I am usually very critical of a series' last episode (I have ranted about Endgame on many occasions and about other shows endings that are non-Trek), but I have little criticism of TATV.

That said, I am a sucker for happy endings and prefer things that end the way I would have liked haha...so I disliked the fact that they killed off Trip and Elizabeth (T'Pol and Trip's baby).

I thought the last 4 episodes were extremely powerful and made me very moved. I feel very sad that they cancelled this show when they did because it really got better with time.

I see things all the time about wanting to bring ENT back for another season on Netflix (would be Season 5)...but to be honest, without Trip and also without the crew staying together, it wouldn't be nearly the same show. I am sure once the ENT producers were told it was not renewed for a 5th season, that is why they had to wrap everything up very quickly there at the end and sign the coalition of planets. If the show was going to last the standard 7 seasons, that would have occurred at the end of Season 7.

That said, I really loved Season 4. I thought it was very moving and powerful. But, the mushy side of me just wanted Trip and T'Pol to have a happy ending with their child, even if the child was conceived without their permission. It was obvious that they loved each other and would have taken great care of the baby. Even if the baby had died...the two still could have ended up together. Perhaps showing 6 years later that they had conceived a child of their own (since the doctor did say that by natural means, the child would have a good chance of surviving despite the mixing of DNA). I mean, they mentioned it DELIBERATELY at the end of "Terra Prime" with subtext obviously alluding to the fact that T'Pol and Trip could successfully have a child of their own...and then they didn't. What a let down that was. D:

At the beginning of the series, I wanted nothing more than for T'Pol and Archer to get together...it was obvious they cared for each other and had good chemistry...so it's funny to me that towards the end I wanted nothing more than for T'Pol to end up with Trip.

Some stuff that I believe they messed up with:
-Underdevelopment of Mayweather and Reed.
-Not explaining why Reed tends to be anti-social and doesn't get along well with his parents.
-Never resolving some arcs like the Suliban issue / temporal cold war.
-Why does Daniels "from the future" visit Archer?? I loved those scenes, but I don't think they ever really explained it fully??? It reminded me of Sisko and the prophet visits, but at least that had a concrete reasoning behind it. Maybe they DID explain it and I missed something? I might have to check on that.
-They re-used some plotlines/ideas from Voyager and DS9 that I just noticed while watching certain episodes.
-My personal preference of T'Pol and Trip not being together at the end. BOOOOOO. After all of that agonizing drama, they really should have been together. It made a lot of what they went through kind of meaningless.

Other than my above grievances...I have to say great show and I wish it had lasted longer. Also, I don't think it should be hated on as much as it is. IMO, it was a good watch and tied up loose ends that other series hadn't done.



OK, You, didn't ask but I'm going to tell you why I despise TATV:



Problem No. 1: The "framing device" is an 11-year-old episode of TNG, which means that pretty much everybody watching would already know how Riker makes his decision to tell the truth about the Pegasus device. And it bears NO RESEMBLANCE to what occurs in "This Ain't The Valentine."


Problem 2a: Bizarre characterization. Having seen "The Pegasus," I remember Riker being under a great deal of stress. In TATV, you'd think he didn't have a care in the world: smiling while having a relaxing drink with Troi in Ten Forward, inviting her to dinner... At one point Troi tells Riker she has a counseling appointment with Barclay and if she's late "Reg will be furious." WTF?! More likely, Reg would be apologizing to her for being on time.

Problem 2b: Archer had faced danger on many occasions throughout the NX-01's travels (including a suicide mission in "Azati Prime") and yet Trip handled every one of those instances without going to pieces.
-- Also, Trip was a pretty gifted engineer and the best plan to save Archer that he could come up with was to blow himself up.
-- Also, Shran, who always seemed pretty savvy to me, couldn't tell the difference between business partners and criminals.


Problem 3: The drink, the dinner invitation and Troi going off to her appointment, along with their little tour of the NX-01 took precious time away from the regular cast and added absolutely NOTHING to this 43-minute finale. It was the very last episode of Enterprise and supposedly a farewell to all of Trek for a while (tho' the only references made to other Trek were tributes to TNG).

Problem No. 3a: According to "Bound," Trip and T'Pol were bonded mates. The excruciatingly touching scene at the end of Terra Prime is wiped out by a break-up that is mentioned but goes unexplained.

Problem No. 4: What kind of moron actually writes a SPOILER into a script?

Problem No. 5: An intruder alert is sounded and Archer and Trip dash off to confront the intruders without stopping by the armory.

Problem No. 6: Where the hell were Reed and the MACOs? Confined to their quarters?

Problem No. 7: No death scene. Did we really need one? Maybe not. But since...
Problem No. 8: ... There was no service for Trip, I think there should have been one. (Sim served Enterprise for two weeks and he got a funeral. In "A Night in Sickbay" Archer actually dreams about holding a funeral for Porthos.)

Problem No. 9: T'Pol is alone in Trip's quarters packing up his things. Archer arrives. T'Pol gripes that Trip told her that as time passed she would miss her mother less. She wants to know why he said that. Archer, the speechmaker could come up with nothing but cliches. Besides, I doubt very much that Trip would have told T'Pol that. Does anyone who actually watched the show doubt that Trip still missed his sister?

Problem No. 10: At the signing ceremony, nobody... and I mean NOBODY among Trip's so-called friends lament his absence. Archer, T'Pol and Phlox are in the green room waiting for the ceremony to begin. Archer is fretting about his speech, T'Pol is fretting about Archer's inability to dress himself, Phlox is just as cheery and perky as ever ... Malcolm, Hoshi and Travis are in the audience either griping about their nosebleed seats or chatting about their career ambitions.

UGH.
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Old August 12 2013, 04:12 AM   #35
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

That's more analysis than the episode deserves.
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Old August 12 2013, 04:22 AM   #36
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

R. Star wrote: View Post
That's more analysis than the episode deserves.

I wrote this a couple years ago when someone (don't recall who) posted wanting to know what other fans thought of the episode.
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Old August 13 2013, 07:29 PM   #37
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
That's more analysis than the episode deserves.

I wrote this a couple years ago when someone (don't recall who) posted wanting to know what other fans thought of the episode.
I think your analysis should be part of an Ent forum FAQ.
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Old August 13 2013, 08:21 PM   #38
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

My memory might be faultyas it's been a while since I watched the epidsode but I seem to recall that no one seemed to have earned a promotion i.e. Reed dispite a war.

Beside the true end of ENT was the previous episode. No matter how they want to dress it it. It was a TNG episode not a ENT episode. Given that the only real characters we saw where Riker and Troi. It used a TNG episode to frame the episode.
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Old August 13 2013, 08:52 PM   #39
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
That's more analysis than the episode deserves.

I wrote this a couple years ago when someone (don't recall who) posted wanting to know what other fans thought of the episode.
I didn't mean to belittle it by any means, you're points are spot on. Just taking a jab at the episode itself. To me the biggest problem is bringing in Frakes and Sirtis at all. The finale of a series is supposed to be a celebration of the whole show that ties up all, or at least some, of the lose plot ends. Instead you have Riker and Troi stealing the show with the backdrop of a fairly average TNG episode that isn't even accurately portrayed.

The idea of a Riker/Troi crossover might be alright on it's own for a regular episode. Heck Troi and Barclay did alright with their Voyager appearances, but to do it in the finale is an injustice to the series as a whole. You take what's supposed to be Enterprise's crowning moment, the signing of the Federation Charter, and turn it into a game for Troi and Riker.

Heck if they went with that 10 years later bit, and then told some of their adventures in the forms of flashbacks, including maybe WHY Trip and T'Pol split up, that would've been better. Heck then you could've had Trip die in one of those flashbacks if you're bound and determined and have it actually mean something. If they wanted to give the fans a Valentine, the three series Trek monologue is all I'd really need. That was a nice touch all on it's own. But by then the damage was done and a band-aid isn't gonna fix the knife they shoved in the back of the whole series with that one.
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Old August 13 2013, 09:01 PM   #40
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

With the "valentine to the fans" idea, they inadvertently told the audience they thought TNG was better than the series they'd been working on the previous 4 years.
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Old August 13 2013, 09:09 PM   #41
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

I don't think it was inadvertant at all.


"Hey fans, remember when Trek was popular? Lets just remind you of that while cacking on this widely panned iteration"
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Old August 13 2013, 09:16 PM   #42
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

I'll agree that TNG was better, but... dang, you don't need to snub the series like this. You're not fighting for ratings anymore, so toss a bone out to your hardcore fans.
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Old August 13 2013, 09:29 PM   #43
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
I just finished watching the last episode of ENT (finally!) after watching it for the first time this past month or so.

I know a lot of people tend to dislike TATV, but I am not sure why? It was one of the only episodes in the series that made me tear up/cry. It kind of closed up everything nicely, had very moving scenes, and seemed pretty powerful to me. I also cried at the previous episode, that I think may have been more well-done, "Terra Prime". I am usually very critical of a series' last episode (I have ranted about Endgame on many occasions and about other shows endings that are non-Trek), but I have little criticism of TATV.

That said, I am a sucker for happy endings and prefer things that end the way I would have liked haha...so I disliked the fact that they killed off Trip and Elizabeth (T'Pol and Trip's baby).

I thought the last 4 episodes were extremely powerful and made me very moved. I feel very sad that they cancelled this show when they did because it really got better with time.

I see things all the time about wanting to bring ENT back for another season on Netflix (would be Season 5)...but to be honest, without Trip and also without the crew staying together, it wouldn't be nearly the same show. I am sure once the ENT producers were told it was not renewed for a 5th season, that is why they had to wrap everything up very quickly there at the end and sign the coalition of planets. If the show was going to last the standard 7 seasons, that would have occurred at the end of Season 7.

That said, I really loved Season 4. I thought it was very moving and powerful. But, the mushy side of me just wanted Trip and T'Pol to have a happy ending with their child, even if the child was conceived without their permission. It was obvious that they loved each other and would have taken great care of the baby. Even if the baby had died...the two still could have ended up together. Perhaps showing 6 years later that they had conceived a child of their own (since the doctor did say that by natural means, the child would have a good chance of surviving despite the mixing of DNA). I mean, they mentioned it DELIBERATELY at the end of "Terra Prime" with subtext obviously alluding to the fact that T'Pol and Trip could successfully have a child of their own...and then they didn't. What a let down that was. D:

At the beginning of the series, I wanted nothing more than for T'Pol and Archer to get together...it was obvious they cared for each other and had good chemistry...so it's funny to me that towards the end I wanted nothing more than for T'Pol to end up with Trip.

Some stuff that I believe they messed up with:
-Underdevelopment of Mayweather and Reed.
-Not explaining why Reed tends to be anti-social and doesn't get along well with his parents.
-Never resolving some arcs like the Suliban issue / temporal cold war.
-Why does Daniels "from the future" visit Archer?? I loved those scenes, but I don't think they ever really explained it fully??? It reminded me of Sisko and the prophet visits, but at least that had a concrete reasoning behind it. Maybe they DID explain it and I missed something? I might have to check on that.
-They re-used some plotlines/ideas from Voyager and DS9 that I just noticed while watching certain episodes.
-My personal preference of T'Pol and Trip not being together at the end. BOOOOOO. After all of that agonizing drama, they really should have been together. It made a lot of what they went through kind of meaningless.

Other than my above grievances...I have to say great show and I wish it had lasted longer. Also, I don't think it should be hated on as much as it is. IMO, it was a good watch and tied up loose ends that other series hadn't done.



OK, You, didn't ask but I'm going to tell you why I despise TATV:



Problem No. 1: The "framing device" is an 11-year-old episode of TNG, which means that pretty much everybody watching would already know how Riker makes his decision to tell the truth about the Pegasus device. And it bears NO RESEMBLANCE to what occurs in "This Ain't The Valentine."


Problem 2a: Bizarre characterization. Having seen "The Pegasus," I remember Riker being under a great deal of stress. In TATV, you'd think he didn't have a care in the world: smiling while having a relaxing drink with Troi in Ten Forward, inviting her to dinner... At one point Troi tells Riker she has a counseling appointment with Barclay and if she's late "Reg will be furious." WTF?! More likely, Reg would be apologizing to her for being on time.

Problem 2b: Archer had faced danger on many occasions throughout the NX-01's travels (including a suicide mission in "Azati Prime") and yet Trip handled every one of those instances without going to pieces.
-- Also, Trip was a pretty gifted engineer and the best plan to save Archer that he could come up with was to blow himself up.
-- Also, Shran, who always seemed pretty savvy to me, couldn't tell the difference between business partners and criminals.


Problem 3: The drink, the dinner invitation and Troi going off to her appointment, along with their little tour of the NX-01 took precious time away from the regular cast and added absolutely NOTHING to this 43-minute finale. It was the very last episode of Enterprise and supposedly a farewell to all of Trek for a while (tho' the only references made to other Trek were tributes to TNG).

Problem No. 3a: According to "Bound," Trip and T'Pol were bonded mates. The excruciatingly touching scene at the end of Terra Prime is wiped out by a break-up that is mentioned but goes unexplained.

Problem No. 4: What kind of moron actually writes a SPOILER into a script?

Problem No. 5: An intruder alert is sounded and Archer and Trip dash off to confront the intruders without stopping by the armory.

Problem No. 6: Where the hell were Reed and the MACOs? Confined to their quarters?

Problem No. 7: No death scene. Did we really need one? Maybe not. But since...
Problem No. 8: ... There was no service for Trip, I think there should have been one. (Sim served Enterprise for two weeks and he got a funeral. In "A Night in Sickbay" Archer actually dreams about holding a funeral for Porthos.)

Problem No. 9: T'Pol is alone in Trip's quarters packing up his things. Archer arrives. T'Pol gripes that Trip told her that as time passed she would miss her mother less. She wants to know why he said that. Archer, the speechmaker could come up with nothing but cliches. Besides, I doubt very much that Trip would have told T'Pol that. Does anyone who actually watched the show doubt that Trip still missed his sister?

Problem No. 10: At the signing ceremony, nobody... and I mean NOBODY among Trip's so-called friends lament his absence. Archer, T'Pol and Phlox are in the green room waiting for the ceremony to begin. Archer is fretting about his speech, T'Pol is fretting about Archer's inability to dress himself, Phlox is just as cheery and perky as ever ... Malcolm, Hoshi and Travis are in the audience either griping about their nosebleed seats or chatting about their career ambitions.

UGH.
But other than all that, what's wrong with it?
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Old August 13 2013, 09:31 PM   #44
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

That's like asking, other than that Mrs Lincoln how was the play?
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Old August 13 2013, 09:33 PM   #45
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Re: Finished Watching ENT (Warning: Spoilers)

R. Star wrote: View Post
That's like asking, other than that Mrs Lincoln how was the play?
Somebody's paying attention.
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