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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 10 2013, 11:16 PM   #16
serenitytrek1
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

Clancy_s wrote: View Post
serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
. I don't think Kirk is the marrying kind as well and I don't even think star fleets top officers are the marrying kind. however I do know some of them are...Admiral Marcus surely had a wife.
At some point, maybe now ex? It seems as though Carol spent a fair proportion of her childhood in the UK whereas Marcus accent is US, to my ears.

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
However, I would take kirk marrying over his endless womanising.
I'm in the give-us-space-adventure group and don't much care what they do with the characters personal lives so long as it's kept in the background, and a passing fling is easier to write off.

I thought there was suppose to be a deleted scene on carol talking about her parents marriage and why she leaved in England with her Mum.

I agree on the personal life thing as well. there is so much going on in the films. you cant really have the characters personal life addressed much in a fast paced film, this is (to me) also the reason why a pon farr subplot will suck in Trek 3...BIG TIME.

I cant believe people actually want to see that in Trek 3.
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Old August 10 2013, 11:29 PM   #17
marksound
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

I agree on the personal life thing as well. there is so much going on in the films. you cant really have the characters personal life addressed much in a fast paced film, this is (to me) also the reason why a pon farr subplot will suck in Trek 3...BIG TIME.
Count me in on that.

We've had the two big action films. It's time to explore, and let the characters drive the story.

Good writers can make it fun and exciting and memorable. Bad writers can make it a box office success, but something that Trek fans will complain about until the end of time.

I'm not looking forward to that. Thank goodness I might only live another 25-30 years.
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Old August 10 2013, 11:38 PM   #18
BillJ
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

Gsam wrote: View Post
To do a Kirk and Spock are soul mates centric film would be just wrong. Up until the point of Kirk's death scene they didn't even know each other.


They had worked together for a year when Into Darkness starts.
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Old August 11 2013, 12:04 AM   #19
Gsam
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

Yes, they had worked together for a year when Into Darkness starts. You missed my point. After one year working together they still don't have a friendship or a sense of the other persons thoughts and how they will react to certain things or situations.

Hence the whole problem with the reports and how Kirk didn't even know what Spock had done and the fact that it appears to me that Spock had no clue that Kirk was so close with Pike. If he did he sure was disrespecting even more than I thought with the mind meld.

The whole point of what I wrote was to show that even after a year they don't appear to have gotten to know each other all that much for all the reasons that I listed in my prior post.

I stand by my opinion that it would be a mistake to not utilize Bones more and in a better manner in the next film.
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Old August 11 2013, 12:05 AM   #20
serenitytrek1
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

Kirk and Spock had worked together for 6 months and they were frenimes not friends that was why Bones told Kirk that Spock would let him die in the volcano and why Kirk, before his death asked Spock does he understand why he went back for him. Spock tearfully replies by saying because you are my friend.

So they were not technically friends at the beginning of the film...yet.

the whole thing with the kirk and spock dynamic in into darkness was that the writers didn't make it their own.

they borrowed heavily form their legendary friendship in TOS. Its like the writers basically were trying to cement their friendship and place it on the same level of TOS Kirk and Spock without any hard work or depth, they even went as far as copying and pasting the scene from wrath of khan in STiD.


If STiD had the kirk and spock dynamic fresh, unpredictable , original and standing on its own, it would have worked better and would have been more believable.



People have opinions on what ST 3 should be like however while some of our opinions differ, we all agree that we want ORGINALITY. No more rip off, remakes, rehash or paying homages. STiD has done that enough.

Someone said the third film should be about exploring. I am guessing Paramount are too scared to do that. Paramount believes the typical Hollywood formula of how a summer blockbuster film needs actions and amazing fight scenes with awesome visual effects to bring in the big box.

Especially now that star wars is coming back



Maybe Trek 3 should be like the Voyage home.... All fluffy and family stuff. It would definitely do well at the box office in USA however the foreign box office numbers might be poor.

Last edited by serenitytrek1; August 11 2013 at 12:17 AM.
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Old August 11 2013, 12:52 AM   #21
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

Franklin wrote: View Post
STID will forever make this Kirk different from Kirk Prime. Kirk Prime was 53 (TWOK) before he learned you can't cheat death (aka there are no-win scenarios). Comparatively, Kirk learned this before he was 30 and in a far more intimate way (his own death, not Spock's).
Except in both cases, he DID cheat death: Spock Prime, and literally, himself.
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Old August 11 2013, 02:30 AM   #22
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

I have a fanboy rom-com version of the Kirk-Carol-David thing.
Kirk and Marcus have this Friends With Benefits relationship. They like each other as friends but both know its not going to be forever. Carol in reality likes McCoy and vice versa but McCoy is too hung up from his marriage... Carol ends up pregnant with Kirk's child.

They do some actiony stuff in the movie (you know the main plot) and by the end of the movie Kirk has to go on some sort of suicide mission. Spock goes with him though he doesn't really have to. Then McCoy says he will help raise Kirk's child properly with Carol.

I'd like the ending to have the possibility of them coming back.
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Old August 11 2013, 02:36 AM   #23
Nerys Myk
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

DARTH TIBERIUS: No, David. I am your father!

DAVID: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Old August 11 2013, 02:58 AM   #24
NuFan
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

CaptainBearclaw wrote: View Post
the final movie
Yeah, good luck with that...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...entpole-598750
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Old August 11 2013, 03:48 PM   #25
Franklin
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
STID will forever make this Kirk different from Kirk Prime. Kirk Prime was 53 (TWOK) before he learned you can't cheat death (aka there are no-win scenarios). Comparatively, Kirk learned this before he was 30 and in a far more intimate way (his own death, not Spock's).
Except in both cases, he DID cheat death: Spock Prime, and literally, himself.
In the end, yes. But neither could've known they're deaths would be only temporary, so they're sacrifices were genuine. The difference would also be that Kirk knows there's no way he can credit his revival to his own ingenuity. It was pure good fortune. He knows he's not invulnerable.
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Old August 13 2013, 06:27 PM   #26
thumbtack
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

Franklin wrote: View Post
But neither could've known they're deaths would be only temporary.
I thought all death was temporary in Star Trek.
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Old August 13 2013, 06:28 PM   #27
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

thumbtack wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
But neither could've known they're deaths would be only temporary.
I thought all death was temporary in Star Trek.
Tell that to the redshirts.
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Old August 18 2013, 03:29 AM   #28
Therin of Andor
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Kirk and Spock aren't gay. There's nothing in canon to even suggest it. Two men can be close friends without having sex, just as two women can, or even a man and a woman can. I don't know where all that slash stuff comes from.
From Gene Roddenberry's footnote in his ST:TMP novelization (1979):

At our request, Admiral Kirk supplied the following comment on this subject:

"I was never aware of this lovers rumor, although I have been told that Spock encountered it several times. Apparently he had always dismissed it with his characteristic lifting of his right eyebrow which usually connoted some combination of surprise, disbelief, and/or annoyance. As for myself, although I have no moral or other objections to physical love in any of its many Earthly, alien and mixed forms, I have always found my best gratification in that creature woman. Also, I would dislike being thought of as so foolish that I would select a love partner who came into sexual heat only once every seven years."
Also...

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Carol in reality likes McCoy and vice versa but McCoy is too hung up from his marriage...
IDW's comic (Ongoing #1) suggests that this timeline's McCoy once had a fling with Dr Elizabeth Dehner - and we see in STiD that Carol wears her hair in the same style!
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Old August 18 2013, 03:32 AM   #29
Nerys Myk
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

"love partner" Who talks like that?
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Old August 18 2013, 08:04 AM   #30
serenitytrek1
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Re: Kirk's Character Arc: Spoiled in Second Movie

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Kirk and Spock aren't gay. There's nothing in canon to even suggest it. Two men can be close friends without having sex, just as two women can, or even a man and a woman can. I don't know where all that slash stuff comes from.
From Gene Roddenberry's footnote in his ST:TMP novelization (1979):

At our request, Admiral Kirk supplied the following comment on this subject:

"I was never aware of this lovers rumor, although I have been told that Spock encountered it several times. Apparently he had always dismissed it with his characteristic lifting of his right eyebrow which usually connoted some combination of surprise, disbelief, and/or annoyance. As for myself, although I have no moral or other objections to physical love in any of its many Earthly, alien and mixed forms, I have always found my best gratification in that creature woman. Also, I would dislike being thought of as so foolish that I would select a love partner who came into sexual heat only once every seven years."
Also...

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Carol in reality likes McCoy and vice versa but McCoy is too hung up from his marriage...
IDW's comic (Ongoing #1) suggests that this timeline's McCoy once had a fling with Dr Elizabeth Dehner - and we see in STiD that Carol wears her hair in the same style!


Bravo to Gene,

It is cool that people dance around with the topic but it was never Gene's intention for people to interpret kirk and spock as lovers. If Kirk and Spock are lovers so is James Bond and M. However Gene was not the type of person that discourage people to have opinions different from his.

I heard this rumour that Gene actually wanted Spock and chapel to get married at the end of TOS. I don't know if this is true, however I wont be surprised when you consider that the character who played Nurse Chapel was married to Gene and she always seemed to have this enduring love for Spock.

Last edited by serenitytrek1; August 18 2013 at 10:14 AM.
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