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Old August 9 2013, 05:59 PM   #46
DarthTom
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

Pingfah wrote: View Post
It's hardly an unimaginable concept. I mean just take right now, for example.
Well the ultra-capitalists believe the world will de-evolve their way which is as depicted in Atlas Shrugged. That is - everywhere where socialism or hybrid Marxism has taken control falls to shit except for the few that embrace individualism and capitalism.
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Old August 9 2013, 06:26 PM   #47
DalekJim
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

Pingfah wrote: View Post
When are conservatives not whining about Hollywood or crapping their pants about some imaginary red threat?
The American liberals voted in to office a man that is currently leading a manhunt for a nerd that reported a crime. It's hard to see where the moral high ground exists any more. Your (almost entirely interchangeable!) liberals and conservatives have both fucked things up. I don't see how any comparison between the Republicans and Democrats could even get heated. Bush and Obama have both served the same big business and big government agenda.

You had the chance to improve things with Ron Paul, but even he'd only have been slowing down the inevitable.
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Old August 9 2013, 06:36 PM   #48
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

Elysium is certainly trying to make a point, extrapolating that the richest percent of the planet will simply remove themselves from Earth as they apparently have already done on Earth (out of touch), the movie also seems to claim the non-rich are incapable of doing anything themselves and will fall into violence, poverty and environmental ruin.. Though there may be some overlap with such a scenerio, I tend to think this will not happen, for reasons outlined here in far greater detail than I will go into:

http://www.abundancethebook.com/

http://www.amazon.com/The-Singularit...ref=pd_sim_b_3

http://www.amazon.com/The-Rational-O...ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.com/The-Better-Ang...ref=pd_sim_b_6

http://www.amazon.com/The-Skeptical-...ef=pd_sim_b_11

So generally speaking, the movie is a thought experiment scifi fantasy, worthwhile, entertaining, but ultimately a little too negative and simplistic.
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Old August 9 2013, 09:33 PM   #49
Set Harth
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

DalekJim wrote:
It's hard to see where the moral high ground exists any more.
Health care.

Now was that so hard?
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Old August 9 2013, 09:40 PM   #50
BillJ
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Pingfah wrote: View Post
When are conservatives not whining about Hollywood or crapping their pants about some imaginary red threat?
The American liberals voted in to office a man that is currently leading a manhunt for a nerd that reported a crime. It's hard to see where the moral high ground exists any more. Your (almost entirely interchangeable!) liberals and conservatives have both fucked things up. I don't see how any comparison between the Republicans and Democrats could even get heated. Bush and Obama have both served the same big business and big government agenda.

You had the chance to improve things with Ron Paul, but even he'd only have been slowing down the inevitable.


You shouldn't make comments about subjects you obviously have no clue about.
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Old August 9 2013, 10:17 PM   #51
PKerr
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

Just got back from seeing it and it was very average, all of the action stuff was in the previews.

And BTW it's very political, once again the "evil" rich keeping the average Joe down.
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Old August 9 2013, 10:42 PM   #52
chardman
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Pingfah wrote: View Post
When are conservatives not whining about Hollywood or crapping their pants about some imaginary red threat?
The American liberals voted in to office a man that is currently leading a manhunt for a nerd that reported a crime. It's hard to see where the moral high ground exists any more. Your (almost entirely interchangeable!) liberals and conservatives have both fucked things up. I don't see how any comparison between the Republicans and Democrats could even get heated. Bush and Obama have both served the same big business and big government agenda.

You had the chance to improve things with Ron Paul, but even he'd only have been slowing down the inevitable.
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Old August 9 2013, 11:40 PM   #53
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

PKerr wrote: View Post
Just got back from seeing it and it was very average, all of the action stuff was in the previews.

And BTW it's very political, once again the "evil" rich keeping the average Joe down.
Not all of the rich are evil (in or out of the film). I mean, Captain Robau's in it and he's not evil, is he?
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Old August 10 2013, 02:28 AM   #54
The Wormhole
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

As an action movie it's pretty cool and definitely entertaining. Though if you think about the plot and the setting, it is rather simplistic and not particularly well thought out. Specifically this whole class division, space station with rich people who wine and dine and enjoy a life of luxury. Earth with poor who are violent, scruffy and struggling to get by. There'd have to be some sort of overlap. Even with robots and drones to take care of the menial work on the station, there'd have to be some sort of "lower class" on the station just for things to get done. Likewise Earth should have some sort of "upper class" authority to govern the planet. And I mean something other than a snobby CEO and a douchebag labour supervisor.

But hey, I went in expecting an action movie with a cyborg and crazy action and that's what I got, so all things considered this movie's a solid thumbs up from me.
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Old August 10 2013, 03:54 AM   #55
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

Anvilicious!

Future dystopia movies are almost invariably the most interesting in how they reflect contemporary concerns. I saw one review that called this a mix of Occupy Wall Street fears of the 1% and right-wing xenophobes who fear a future America largely overrun by Hispanics, but the movie is pretty much entirely in the court of the latter group, so I don't think it's meant to be playing to fears in that respect. I thought a good part of the allegory was fine, but the "undocumented ships" bit was really silly; it'd be like it poor Mexicans were trying to get into America by hijacking airliners.

I liked that the movie stuck to its guns enough to kill the protagonist.

I'm really not clear why Jodie Foster had her psycho henchman revived if she was pissed off at him. It didn't seem like she needed him anymore, and I can't imagine she's the sort who really stresses about fulfilling her obligations.

Great action, though.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:02 AM   #56
Yminale
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Even with robots and drones to take care of the menial work on the station, there'd have to be some sort of "lower class" on the station just for things to get done.
If you have access to robots and drones why do you need a "lower class" (unless you need hookers, fake friends, and trainers). The robots appear smart enough to fix themselves.

Likewise Earth should have some sort of "upper class" authority to govern the planet. And I mean something other than a snobby CEO and a douchebag labour supervisor.
What makes you think the rich wants to control the planet. Does Apple care about the lives of their slave labor force. It appears they have a basic police force to protect the 1% properties and that's it.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:04 AM   #57
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
I thought a good part of the allegory was fine, but the "undocumented ships" bit was really silly; it'd be like it poor Mexicans were trying to get into America by hijacking airliners..
Think poor Chinese sneaking aboard cargo ships.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:08 AM   #58
CaptainCanada
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

Yminale wrote: View Post
CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
I thought a good part of the allegory was fine, but the "undocumented ships" bit was really silly; it'd be like it poor Mexicans were trying to get into America by hijacking airliners..
Think poor Chinese sneaking aboard cargo ships.
Those actually go into port like they're supposed to, though (or else, park discretely on the coast; and the coast isn't 100% monitored by radar or whatever). These guys are just racing up in full view of tracking systems and landing where they clearly don't belong.

The lady in the opening who is just doing it to cure her kid makes sense, mind you.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:13 AM   #59
Yminale
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

RAMA wrote: View Post
I tend to think this will not happen, for reasons outlined here in far greater detail than I will go into:
Those aren't reasons, just opinions. Ray Kurzweil is a techno-fetishist who oversells ever andvancement (only idiots are going to implant an Iphone into their brain. Bjorn Lomborg is an apologist for the oil companies who refuses to state where his donations are coming from. Steven Pinker is delusional. Just because we have fewer wars doesn't mean we are less violent (has seen the crap on Twitter).

As for reality, I suggest visiting Detroit, NYC, Mexico City (where the movie was filmed), Sao Paulo or Beijing if you think Elysium is "too fantastic"
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Old August 10 2013, 04:17 AM   #60
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Re: Elysium - grade/review and spoilers - also controversy

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
These guys are just racing up in full view of tracking systems and landing where they clearly don't belong.
I see what you are saying but I've seen footage of immigrants rush check points and climb fences in full view of cameras. I've heard stories of Cuban refuges sneaking past the Coast Guard using speed boats.
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