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Old August 8 2013, 07:32 PM   #31
Warped9
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

More incremental progress. One thing Iíve learned with 3D modeling: building up the major components to construct the basic overall shape isnít that time consuming, but building up all the detail---now thatís very time consuming.

Would you believe the little component sitting atop the aft section (above the impulse engines) took me the framework of a day to put together? I started out with a different idea that didnít work to my satisfaction so I fiddled until I came up with something more to my liking that seems to integrate better with the rest of the design. And that is inherent with a lot of the detailing---making the right bits integrate well with what youíve done before.

Detailing is one of those things that can make or break a design even as a lot of it might be overlooked by casual observation. Often detail can be subtle and not really obvious. Itís certainly worth and necessary doing, but man, can it eat up your time.

Iím not really showing any images of the underside yet because I havenít begun to add any significant detail there. But Iím not too far from completing the topside detail and then Iíll move on to the underside.

One thing I can say is that this design will not be sporting a lot of windows unlike later designs we saw in contemporary Trek, which could often seem like we were seeing cruise ships in space. This is meant to look like a piece of machinery (with some of it showing through the skin) and suggesting few amenities.

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Old August 8 2013, 07:47 PM   #32
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

I think your tread title is wrong. By the looks of your model, which looks more like a pre-warp spaceship of the 21 century that had be refited into warp power starship.
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Old August 8 2013, 09:07 PM   #33
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

yenny wrote: View Post
I think your tread title is wrong. By the looks of your model, which looks more like a pre-warp spaceship of the 21 century that had be refited into warp power starship.
Based on what? No matter your opinion I'm designing something that is actually rather complex in form and function and distinctly more complicated than what a rudimentary starcraft would have been like in the 21st century.
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Old August 9 2013, 04:36 PM   #34
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Before Enterprise aired, I would have assumed this was the type of starship from about the Romulan War era.

The aft drive section does fit more with the "impulse rockets" implied before the full drive engines.

Any plans to design a rudimentary shuttle craft to go along with it?
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Old August 9 2013, 05:15 PM   #35
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Before Enterprise aired, I would have assumed this was the type of starship from about the Romulan War era.

The aft drive section does fit more with the "impulse rockets" implied before the full drive engines.

Any plans to design a rudimentary shuttle craft to go along with it?
I hadn't planned on doing a shuttle. And I'm not interested in what ENT did since I think they screwed the pooch in so many ways.
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Old August 9 2013, 07:33 PM   #36
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Well that's sort of what I meant, this fits more with the design lineage implied before it and more along the lines of what I imagined Spock to have meant by the ships operating in that era.

This one I could at least see having the atomic warheads as a principle weapon.
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Old August 9 2013, 07:57 PM   #37
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Sorry, Didn't mean to sound snippy. I can be a bit touchy when I hear or wonder if I'm getting another variation of, "well, that's not what we saw in ENT..."

Yeah, my basic idea is that this design is about mid to latter 22nd century. Then again I'm also quite taken with some of Masao's designs for mid 22nd ships. They're definitely more primitive than TOS and they have their own logic in that you would need something relatively uncomplicated to construct in large numbers if you're trying to build up a battle force quickly for a large scale armed conflict.

Of course, no reason why both concepts can't co-exist.
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Old August 10 2013, 12:20 AM   #38
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

It's alright, this happens every time a 22nd century design is brought up.

It fits neatly between the Daedalus and Constitution designs, the single nacelle gives it a look of the Saladin, I could see it being the basis for later designs like it.

I'm not sure I'm familiar with Masao's work but I'll check it out.
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Old August 10 2013, 05:16 AM   #39
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I'm familiar with Masao's work but I'll check it out.
This is Masao's Starfleet Museum website. I particularly like his 22nd century ships (on both sides) set during the Earth/Romulan war. I think his Earth Powhowtan-class ships are particularly cool as well as his later Starfleet Predator-class destroyers.
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Old August 10 2013, 04:33 PM   #40
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

You know, even if you're aiming for a basically clean design (which TOS ships are) you find you still have to contend with a helluva lot of detail to make it look fleshed out. Every time you think you're nearing the end of something you inevitably notice something else that needs to be added.
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Old August 11 2013, 08:55 PM   #41
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

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Old August 12 2013, 04:36 PM   #42
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

While continuing to work on this design today I've also begun sketching out another concept.

I've never really liked the Daedalus-class design primarily because it looks like they basically took MJ's sketch and followed it religiously. As is it looks horribly awkward and ungainly---there's no grace to it whatsoever. Hell, even MJ's basic concept for what eventually became the Enterprise wasn't nailed down from the beginning.

There's a reason MJ rejected the spherical main hull: he didn't like it. Be that as it may I'm sketching out ideas for something along the concept MJ seemed to be going for without following his sketch to the letter. It's not enough to make a pre TOS ship look devolved and somewhat more rudimentary, but also to make it look decent in its own right---it has to have some coolness factor, some measure of the heroic to it.

My thinking is that my design would coexist with my clipper design around the same era. And from both you can see ideas that could eventually cross pollinate to become the more familiar designs of the TOS and TMP eras. My overall idea is to crank out a few somewhat key designs to indicate a kind of general evolution from the early S.S. Valiant era (I'm going to revisit that one) through to the TOS era.

- U.E.S.S. Valiant (to be revisited because it should look more rudimentary than the ringship Enterprise)
- U.E.S.S. Bonaventure (the TAS version doesn't work for, not for the era it's supposed to be, so I have another idea)
- Hercules-class star clipper (WIP)
- Independence-class (my take on MJ's sketch that became the Daedalus)
- Nova-class (my pre TOS Cruiser also based on an MJ sketch that seemed to be the beginning of his arrival at his final design for the TOS Enterprise)

Another design concept occurs to me. In "Balance Of Terror" they make a point of questioning whether Romulan spies could be operating within the Federation because of the perceived semblance of the BoP's design to that of Earth ships. I'm assuming the similarity is to Earth ships of the past rather than current designs (or at least that's what I get out of the reference). Granted the Romulans likely wouldn't copy an alien design in whole, but they might have be influenced with Earth design in principle---"These guys beat us with those ships so maybe it's a superior configuration we should emulate."

At any rate it strikes me that there could be at least one Earth ship design that could bear at least a passing resemblance to the Romulan BoP seen in "balance Of Terror," something that gave the Romulans the idea to copy the general concept.
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Old August 12 2013, 06:34 PM   #43
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I've never really liked the Daedalus-class design primarily because it looks like they basically took MJ's sketch and followed it religiously. As is it looks horribly awkward and ungainly---there's no grace to it whatsoever. Hell, even MJ's basic concept for what eventually became the Enterprise wasn't nailed down from the beginning.
I'm right there with you on that one. I look forward to your interpretation!
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Old August 12 2013, 07:55 PM   #44
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

As much as Enterprise is not being used here, even in the novels for that series, the Daedalus was reduced to a technological test bed that was never meant to see full production.

TNG's only reference to the class is when the Federation finally managed to retire it in favour of better ships classes.

So to be blunt, the Daedalus was kicked around verbally everytime it was even mentioned. I think that really says all there needs to be said about the class.

I've always enjoyed the fandoms interpretations of the class and variations on it far more.

And as for the size comparison above, the Hercules is a little larger than I had thought at first, but considering how much thinner she is and the length of the mechanical drive sections, it makes more sense.
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Old August 12 2013, 09:02 PM   #45
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

^^ The mechanicals and systems of the era are also meant to be bulkier so the ship wouldn't be as spacious in accommodations as TOS era ships. And note my little posted image says "approximate size comparison." The ship could still end up being a bit smaller, but probably not by much.

One of MJ's sketches for the Daedalus type design had the name Independence on the front, so I've decided to call my version the Independence-class even though I'm deviating from his sketches.
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