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Old August 8 2013, 02:24 PM   #16
Samurai8472
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

Mike Farley wrote: View Post
Wouldn't a Gotham PD show in the "realistic" Nolanverse just be... a regular cop show? Nolan's Gotham isn't exactly crawling with super-crime.

Or just a standard cop show set in Chicago




The way the cops and other folks of "Gotham" acted was more Chicago than anything.

Or maybe that's how Nolan writes his people
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Old August 8 2013, 02:41 PM   #17
BillJ
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

Yawn.
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Old August 8 2013, 02:46 PM   #18
Christopher
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

I've heard good things about Gotham Central, and often thought a show based on that premise would be a good idea. The problem is that what makes that premise interesting is that it's about how ordinary cops deal with living in a world of superheroes and supervillains. Not sure how that would work in the Nolanverse.


AviTrek wrote: View Post
The general population doesn't care about continuity and shared universes. They just want to watch a fun show/movie. The only people complaining about something confusing the audience are the comic book continuity nerds who claim other people will be confused.
Exactly. I don't understand these comments about the Nolan continuity being "superceded" or erased or whatever and therefore not being valid anymore. New interpretations of a work of fiction don't annihilate the older ones; they can easily coexist. After all, I think some people are overlooking that Batman is originally a comic-book character, and the comics continuity continued to exist while the Nolan movies presented their own -- and while other Batman continuities existed in animation. This isn't a zero-sum game where there's only room for one continuity at a time -- hell, it hasn't been that since Batman guest-starred on the Superman radio series in the 1940s! So really, I'm bewildered that anyone would think that's a problem.
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Old August 8 2013, 02:50 PM   #19
DalekJim
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

Setting this in the Nolan continuity is ridiculous, as it will mean it'll lack supervillains. I'd actually be interesting if it were set in a more colourful world.
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Old August 8 2013, 03:38 PM   #20
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

The Nolanverse has concluded its story and the main thrust of its story was Bruce Wayne and Batman. I have no problem with the idea of a Batman-less Gotham-set show, but I think it would be better set in a new continuity.
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Old August 8 2013, 03:54 PM   #21
Mike Farley
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

This might be more interesting as Maggie Sawyer, Dan "Terrible" Turpin and the Metropolis SCU.
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Old August 8 2013, 04:14 PM   #22
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

Christopher wrote: View Post
The problem is that what makes that premise interesting is that it's about how ordinary cops deal with living in a world of superheroes and supervillains. Not sure how that would work in the Nolanverse.
it probably wouldn't work to well since the main reason Batman was gone for 8 years was there wasn't any major criminal activity as in no mob and no supervillains.
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Old August 8 2013, 04:27 PM   #23
Kelthaz
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

So it'd be a Batman series focusing on Gotham City without Batman in it? Didn't we already get that with The Dark Knight Rises?
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Old August 8 2013, 04:35 PM   #24
Christopher
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
it probably wouldn't work to well since the main reason Batman was gone for 8 years was there wasn't any major criminal activity as in no mob and no supervillains.
No, the main reason Batman was gone for 8 years was because he felt he wasn't the right solution for Gotham anymore. Batman was what Gotham needed to pull itself out of the mire and begin its path to recovery, but once the people began to take responsibility for restoring their city to health, and once they had Harvey Dent as a better symbol and inspiration than Batman, then Bruce felt it was time to step aside. That was the whole point of TDK. See, the difference between Nolan's Batman and other versions is that this Bruce saw Batman as a temporary solution at best -- not something Gotham would always need to protect it, but as something Gotham needed to grow beyond. It wasn't until the events of TDKR that he came to realize there was still a need for Batman to exist.

The opening of TDKR makes it clear that Gotham was not without crime in those 8 years -- rather, it still had active organized crime, but the Dent Act gave the police and the courts enough clout to hold it in check. There were still people committing crimes and getting put in prison over those 8 years, which is why the prisons were so full when Bane liberated them. But Batman, by building up Harvey as the hero and himself as the villain, had transferred the responsibility for Gotham's protection from an animal-themed vigilante to the police and judicial system where it belonged.

So yeah, this would basically be a cop show. But it would be a cop show with a potentially interesting premise, about a once deeply corrupt city that's now being aggressively cleaned up, but whose cleanup process is built around reverence for a man who actually became a monster. There's a story there. Maybe not a story that has much to do with Batman, but then, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. doesn't look like it'll have that much to do with Iron Man or Captain America either.

I imagine the Dent Act itself could provoke a backlash from criminals, just as Batman's emergence provoked a backlash. The reaction to Batman was the Joker, the emergence of the supercriminal. Perhaps the reaction to the Dent Act could be the criminals developing a more sophisticated and unified organization of their own to counter it, or operating more subtly to try to stay under its radar, as opposed to the more brazen activities they were free to commit before. I could see a major role for, say, a crime boss called Edward Nygma, sometimes nicknamed Riddler for his devious deceptions and master schemes.
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Old August 8 2013, 06:19 PM   #25
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

Christopher wrote: View Post
But it would be a cop show with a potentially interesting premise, about a once deeply corrupt city that's now being aggressively cleaned up, but whose cleanup process is built around reverence for a man who actually became a monster. There's a story there.
Except the only important person who knows that to be true is Gordon. And said secret doesn't get out until TDKR, when the result is... nothing, really, what with all the other, more immediate hubbub afoot.


Christopher wrote: View Post
I could see a major role for, say, a crime boss called Edward Nygma, sometimes nicknamed Riddler for his devious deceptions and master schemes.
Small problem: if there were a truly dastardly villain afoot, wouldn't Robin pay Batman a social call a bit earlier than the time of TDKR?


Christopher wrote: View Post
I imagine the Dent Act itself could provoke a backlash from criminals, just as Batman's emergence provoked a backlash. The reaction to Batman was the Joker, the emergence of the supercriminal. Perhaps the reaction to the Dent Act could be the criminals developing a more sophisticated and unified organization of their own to counter it, or operating more subtly to try to stay under its radar, as opposed to the more brazen activities they were free to commit before.
No offense, you've brought your conceptual A-game as usual, but I can't tell you how sleepy reading this makes me feel.

Not to mention that the notion of a glossy, high-budget show fetishizing a super-criminal vs. authoritarian police "war" at a time when many real American police forces are having to lay off desperately needed officers due to budget cuts, and when prisons nationwide are severely overcrowded and increasingly run for profit, is frankly kinda sick.
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Old August 8 2013, 06:24 PM   #26
kirk55555
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

I actually like what I've read of Gotham Central, but like others have said, the concept works better as a series about cops who are in a universe where they have to deal with supervillains. The nolanverse, even ignoring my intense hatred of it, is not set up to do the type of Gotham cop show that could be good. The way this show is being set up, I really don't see any potential to get an entertaining show out of it.
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Old August 8 2013, 06:49 PM   #27
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

SHIELD, even absent Iron Man, Thor and co, is an extraordinary organisation dealing with extraordinary threats in a fantastical universe. Gotham PD, without Batman and his gallery of villains, is just another police force in an ordinary city, albeit one with a particularly high crime level.

And let's face it, it's not like the depiction we saw in TDKR was a particularly realistic depiction of policing. Hundreds of cops living underground but looking remarkably well-fed and clean? Even with the outline Christopher describes, I can't see this taking off. It would be too unheroic for the comic book crowd and is hardly going to compete with The Wire as a depiction of a gutsy police force dealing with organised crime. And, as Gaith has intimated, we pretty much know how it's going to resolve.
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Old August 8 2013, 06:54 PM   #28
Konata Izumi
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

Can't there be classic villains?
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Old August 8 2013, 07:01 PM   #29
Captaindemotion
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

^ Do you mean classic Batman villains, the ones Nolan chose not to show? There could, but doesn't it beg the question Gaith posed, namely why didn't Batman come out of retirement to face them down?
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Old August 8 2013, 07:41 PM   #30
Christopher
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Re: Gotham PD show in "Nolanverse" being developed by the WB

Gaith wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
But it would be a cop show with a potentially interesting premise, about a once deeply corrupt city that's now being aggressively cleaned up, but whose cleanup process is built around reverence for a man who actually became a monster. There's a story there.
Except the only important person who knows that to be true is Gordon. And said secret doesn't get out until TDKR, when the result is... nothing, really, what with all the other, more immediate hubbub afoot.
Gordon is the only person who knows it as of the end of TDK. But since it is the truth, there is evidence of it, evidence that other characters could uncover. Many TV series have been about characters finding clues to deep dark secrets and investigating them. And in many such series, the secrets do not become publicly known, either because the protagonists never prove it or because they agree to keep the secrets. So there is no reason a show like this couldn't be fit into the Nolanverse framework.


Small problem: if there were a truly dastardly villain afoot, wouldn't Robin pay Batman a social call a bit earlier than the time of TDKR?
Not all villains are equal. Bane was a major, existential threat. Blake came to Bruce because Gordon had been shot and was talking about an underground army gathered beneath the city. That wasn't just crime, that was terrorism and invasion. The stakes were life-and-death for the whole city, and the head of the police was out of action. Batman was the only place to turn. There could easily be many other threats that didn't rise to the same level.

I mean, we're talking about an ongoing series as opposed to a movie. Naturally you'd want to maintain a certain status quo, and thus it stands to reason that you'd go for villains whose plans are a little more subtle than invading or destroying the entire city. You'd focus on crime bosses who are pursuing less cataclysmic, more long-term strategies -- the kind of characters who can sustain a weekly series as opposed to a movie.


Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
SHIELD, even absent Iron Man, Thor and co, is an extraordinary organisation dealing with extraordinary threats in a fantastical universe. Gotham PD, without Batman and his gallery of villains, is just another police force in an ordinary city, albeit one with a particularly high crime level.
From the perspective of a comic-book fan, that's a bad thing. From the perspective of a television network executive trying to draw in a general audience, that's a good thing. Cop shows are a perennial favorite with the public. Plenty of people will watch any reasonably good cop show, regardless of what source material it's based on. So this is a safer direction for the network to take than something more extravagantly comic-booky. Given how much money networks have to spend to make TV shows, it's understandable why they'd prefer to play it safe.


Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
^ Do you mean classic Batman villains, the ones Nolan chose not to show? There could, but doesn't it beg the question Gaith posed, namely why didn't Batman come out of retirement to face them down?
I thought the movies made that extremely clear. One, in the wake of TDK, Batman was seen as a villain, and that was what Bruce wanted. He didn't want the Gothamites to need Batman. He wanted them to mature beyond that rather bizarre need, to take responsibility as a community for building a better, more just Gotham for themselves. And he achieved that by giving them reason to turn against Batman and instead embrace a more conventional crimefighting hero, Harvey Dent. It's the "teach a man to fish" principle. At the end of TDK, Gotham's people had taken responsibility for making the city a better place themselves, following the spirit of Dent, and so they no longer needed Batman to keep the peace. For him to try to be Batman again in that climate would've been counterproductive, would've undermined everything he'd achieved in TDK.

For another thing, as we saw in TDKR, Bruce was practically crippled by all the punishment his body took. He wouldn't have been able to do much crimefighting at that point. On top of which, he was grieving for Rachel and became a recluse.

The point of TDKR is that it took a truly extraordinary threat to overcome those factors and bring Batman out of retirement -- and it had to be after enough time had passed that the people were able to accept him. It's quite easy to believe that he would've stayed out of it as the GCPD dealt with more conventional foes.
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