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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old August 6 2013, 05:30 PM   #16
DalekJim
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

Well, I thought Series 1 and 2 were embarrassingly desperate attempts by RTD and Chibnall to copy Joss Whedon, whereas Children of Earth was bold storytelling.
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Old August 6 2013, 05:45 PM   #17
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

Children of the Earth was awesome. Rewatching it marathon style, though, is emotionally draining, so, for the reason of rewatchability, I think I would prefer if it had been slowed down a bit, maybe stretched out to 6 or 7 episodes.

Miracle Day, on the other hand, as others have ssaid, had the exact opposite problem, it should've been cut shorter (Maybe not down to 5 episodes, maybe only down to 6 or 7 episodes) and could've been much better (And yea, a little bit of aliens mixed in would've been nice, that one worm just wassn't quite enough, and it didn't really tie into the wholle arc of the Series)
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Old August 6 2013, 09:41 PM   #18
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

COE was very draining, brilliant but not an easy watch.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:07 PM   #19
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

Torchwood series two has my favorite episodes, and lines, of the show. "I'm sorry, sir, I've googled the phrase 'I shall walk the earth and my hunger shall know no bounds,' but I keep getting redirected to Weight Watchers."

Children of Earth, to me, is the single greatest thing Russell T. Davies ever wrote. It's rough, it's hard, it's bold, and it's intelligent. It's not light viewing at all. But it is amazing.

Miracle Day, on the other hand, is like a parody of itself. It's trying to hard to be gritty and realistic that it's just dismal, stupid and boring. There's not enough story to carry ten episodes, and they don't do anything with the characters, really. It's absolutely pathetic, from beginning to end.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:11 PM   #20
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Mr Light wrote: View Post
If it had been done in five episodes it would have been great. But it was just too stretched out with too much time wasting. They were trying to do a "24" but just did not have enough plot to justify it... and "24" was known for wheel-spinning!
The problem, as I see it, is that RTD didn't understand why Children of Earth worked, so when he was asked to do something like CoE but bigger, he didn't know how to do it.

From the little that The Writer's Tale (second edition) covers the writing of Children of Earth, it's clear that CoE was a happy accident that worked in spite of RTD (who didn't have a clear vision of what he wanted to do and didn't understand how the story would work) and not because of him. Which is kind of ironic, in that I believe that CoE is the best thing RTD ever did in the Whoniverse and outclasses anything he did on the mothership.

So I think with Miracle Day he was trying to emulate CoE's success without understanding why it was successful.
Allyn, we are in 100%, absolute, wholehearted agreement, completely.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:12 PM   #21
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

The worst thing about Miracle Day is that even though they have ten episodes there are things that aren't nearly well explored enough.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:16 PM   #22
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

I think both were too long. Miracle day should have been five or four episodes, and CoE should have been three.

Besides, CoE didn't really have that warm feel the first two did. In 1 & 2, we had "the gang". Jack, Gwen, Owen, Tosh, and Yanto. In CoE, I didn't feel there were enough cast members to really make it work.

At least in Miracle Day, I feel it eliminated that problem by adding in new cast members, something that I feel CoE really should have attempted instead of bloody killing off another cast member.

I want them to do a fifth series desperately, but only because I love the first two so much.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:17 PM   #23
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

My favourite episode from the first 2 series was Adrift, pretty much the only episode that lived up to the premise of being sci-fi for grown-ups.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:20 PM   #24
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
I think both were too long. Miracle day should have been five or four episodes, and CoE should have been three.

Besides, CoE didn't really have that warm feel the first two did. In 1 & 2, we had "the gang". Jack, Gwen, Owen, Tosh, and Yanto. In CoE, I didn't feel there were enough cast members to really make it work.

At least in Miracle Day, I feel it eliminated that problem by adding in new cast members, something that I feel CoE really should have attempted instead of bloody killing off another cast member.
Wow, I don't think I've ever seen anyone so totally misunderstand Children of Earth or what it was trying to do. It was different from series one and two because it was supposed to be. It wasn't trying to continue Torchwood as it had been. It wasn't supposed to be warm or have a team atmosphere. It was a story about survivors and loss. And it worked brilliantly.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:21 PM   #25
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
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I think both were too long. Miracle day should have been five or four episodes, and CoE should have been three.

Besides, CoE didn't really have that warm feel the first two did. In 1 & 2, we had "the gang". Jack, Gwen, Owen, Tosh, and Yanto. In CoE, I didn't feel there were enough cast members to really make it work.

At least in Miracle Day, I feel it eliminated that problem by adding in new cast members, something that I feel CoE really should have attempted instead of bloody killing off another cast member.
Wow, I don't think I've ever seen anyone so totally misunderstand Children of Earth or what it was trying to do. It was different from series one and two because it was supposed to be. It wasn't trying to continue Torchwood as it had been. It wasn't supposed to be warm or have a team atmosphere. It was a story about survivors and loss. And it worked brilliantly.
Personally, that's not my cup of tea. I liked the format of 1 & 2. But that's just me.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:22 PM   #26
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Personally, that's not my cup of tea. I liked the format of 1 & 2. But that's just me.
Not liking it is fine. Saying it didn't work because it wasn't like what came before isn't. That's missing the bloody point of the whole thing.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:25 PM   #27
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

The first 2 series were just Angel/Buffy but with John Barrowman. A key problem being that Boreanaz and Gellar could act.

The show's metamorphosis from being a patronising BBC3 yoof TV show to a solid adult drama was very welcome. Then Miracle Day missed the point entirely regarding what made the previous series successful, and reminded us why Russell T. Davies had no place writing science-fiction.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:27 PM   #28
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

Well, RTD is a Buffy fan.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:29 PM   #29
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

DalekJim wrote: View Post
The first 2 series were just Angel/Buffy but with John Barrowman. A key problem being that Boreanaz and Gellar could act.
IMO, Gellar can't act her way out of a paper bag, sorry. She's the single reason why I've never been able to get into Buffy, and believe me, I've tried. Love Boreanaz, though, and most of the rest of the cast.

As for Torchwood, RTD really didn't know what he wanted to do with the show other than to play with ideas of sexuality. The first series doesn't know if it wants to be The X-Files or Queer as Folk. The second series got much better. Nothing too daring as far as plots or storylines, but things that were at least consistent and fun. "From Out of the Rain," "Dead Man Walking," "Adrift" and "To the Last Man" are all worthy episodes. They would have been only decent filler stories in Doctor Who, but compared to rest of the dross of early Torchwood, they were the cream of the crop.

Children of Men, though, was absolutely revolutionary. It is perhaps the best example of modern science fiction I've ever seen on television. The fact that it was apparently a fluke that RTD and the others didn't actually understand is extremely disheartening. If they did understand it, it could have marked a new era for televised sci-fi.
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Old August 6 2013, 10:35 PM   #30
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Re: How do you feel about Torchwood Miracle Day

Second series of TW was so much better than the first, mainly because the show relaxed a bit, realised it was a bit shit, and actually became quite comfortable.

With regard to series 1 a friend once said;

Sarah Jane Adventures, written by adults for 14 year olds
Torchwood, written by 14 year olds for adults...
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