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Old August 1 2013, 12:07 AM   #31
marksound
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
^^In that second picture I did a double take thinking that was Riker.
Me too.

In 1987 it was obvious to me that they cast Riker as a Kirk-esque character, but Frakes just didn't have the same onscreen charisma that Shatner had.

It never occurred to me that "Season" could have been a Kirk episode, but it could have worked.
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Old August 1 2013, 12:34 AM   #32
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Melakon wrote: View Post
Well, the revised final draft was written a year after Star Trek IV came out, so the TOS cast was still coasting on that, and Shatner's contract gave him the right to direct the next film. So that could come into play as well.

Memory Alpha seems to make no mention of a Shatner or "Private Little War" connection, so we all may be suffering communal influence from all those encyclopedias and episode guides and technical manuals we're always buying.
Kirk could have died in TSaS and still go on to appear in Star Trek movies. Generations would have been different, but we really wouldn't have needed a passing of the torch by then, since we already would have had Kirk in TSaS, Spock in Unification, McCoy in Encounter at Farpoint and Scotty in Relics.

Melakon wrote: View Post
Well, the revised final draft was written a year after Star Trek IV came out, so the TOS cast was still coasting on that, and Shatner's contract gave him the right to direct the next film. So that could come into play as well.

Memory Alpha seems to make no mention of a Shatner or "Private Little War" connection, so we all may be suffering communal influence from all those encyclopedias and episode guides and technical manuals we're always buying.
Well, we must not be the only ones. This guy named Nic seemed to say the exact same thing back in 2009 on Jammer's Review website:

Nic - Sat, Jul 25, 2009 - 10:10am (USA Central)
I thought your comment about the center of "Too Short a Season" being the guest character. Did you know that this episode was originally conceived as an episode where Kirk comes back to face a decision he made in an episode of TOS (I think it was "A Private Little War"). However, William Shatner refused to do a guest appearence because he said the show was trash (though I'm sure his ego was involved in the decision).
It makes you wonder how different the series would have been if Kirk had appeared in this episode. For one thing, all subsequent Star Trek films (especially "Generations") would have been very different.
Apparently, even GalaxyX said the same thing on this site back in 2008. http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...4&postcount=49

We're all suffering from some mass delusion, it seems.
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Old August 1 2013, 02:14 AM   #33
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post

I definitely think the episode could have worked with Shatner.
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Old August 1 2013, 02:52 AM   #34
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
In 1987 it was obvious to me that they cast Riker as a Kirk-esque character, but Frakes just didn't have the same onscreen charisma that Shatner had.
Riker definitely got better after growing the beard, and the writers stopped trying to make him the next Kirk.
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Old August 1 2013, 04:22 AM   #35
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Dream wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
In 1987 it was obvious to me that they cast Riker as a Kirk-esque character, but Frakes just didn't have the same onscreen charisma that Shatner had.
Riker definitely got better after growing the beard, and the writers stopped trying to make him the next Kirk.
I actually thought he got worse.
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Old August 1 2013, 04:49 AM   #36
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
In 1987 it was obvious to me that they cast Riker as a Kirk-esque character, but Frakes just didn't have the same onscreen charisma that Shatner had.
Riker definitely got better after growing the beard, and the writers stopped trying to make him the next Kirk.
I actually thought he got worse.
Agreed.

Kirk-lite was definitely heads and shoulders above Number One Douche.
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Old August 1 2013, 04:50 AM   #37
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
In 1987 it was obvious to me that they cast Riker as a Kirk-esque character, but Frakes just didn't have the same onscreen charisma that Shatner had.
Riker definitely got better after growing the beard, and the writers stopped trying to make him the next Kirk.
I actually thought he got worse.
I'll disagree. He was way too serious in the early years.
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Old August 1 2013, 05:06 AM   #38
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Riker became aimless post-The Best of Both Worlds. He had no reason to be there and served as nothing more than Picard's secretary at that point.

I prefer the young, driven officer who wanted to be a starship captain.
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Old August 6 2013, 08:26 AM   #39
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

To be frank, why would Kirk be to blame for this? The Klingons armed the other tribe first, who then shot at Mr. Spock and wounded him. Kirk was trying to broker for peace, but circumstances (and the oversexed, backstabbing wife of his friend) forced his hand. Plus, Kirk didn't give the Hill People overpowering phasers, but standard flintlocks equal to the other tribe's. It seemed to be a complete and utter mess for all concerned, and not a straight Prime Directive violation like the kind that Kirk usually does.
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Old August 6 2013, 04:54 PM   #40
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

I always wondered, why didn't Kirk just...take away the weapons the Klingons gave the natives? There were no factories or production houses anywhere, so they weren't making the weapons themselves.
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Old August 6 2013, 04:58 PM   #41
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Anwar wrote: View Post
I always wondered, why didn't Kirk just...take away the weapons the Klingons gave the natives? There were no factories or production houses anywhere, so they weren't making the weapons themselves.
1. The Klingons were teaching the natives how to make them.

2. You going to keep a ship in constant orbit to monitor them? Because nothing stops them from bringing more once you leave.
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Old August 6 2013, 05:09 PM   #42
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Dream wrote: View Post
No, it wasn't a great start. Plenty of fans were on Picard's side the time and even now are still pissed at how Sisko treated him.
That some people don't like it doesn't mean it didn't work. The TNG-first crowd needs to get over itself.

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Old August 7 2013, 05:25 PM   #43
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
To be frank, why would Kirk be to blame for this? The Klingons armed the other tribe first, who then shot at Mr. Spock and wounded him. Kirk was trying to broker for peace, but circumstances (and the oversexed, backstabbing wife of his friend) forced his hand. Plus, Kirk didn't give the Hill People overpowering phasers, but standard flintlocks equal to the other tribe's. It seemed to be a complete and utter mess for all concerned, and not a straight Prime Directive violation like the kind that Kirk usually does.
Good point. Relatedly, this is not the same situation shown in "Too Short a Season," which was a clear weapons-for-hostages situation.

I guess, then, the Kirk version would have more of a bent that of cowboy diplomacy backfiring... which actually would not paint Kirk in that bad a light, IMO.
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