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Old July 12 2013, 02:02 AM   #916
R. Star
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

teacake wrote: View Post
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Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
No, no, no!

THIS THREAD WAS DEAD AND BURIED!
Tuvix became immortal the moment he was murdered.
Yes. A martyr to the Janeway is Satan crowd.
Janeway is not Satan. She only serves him. She even said so one episode.
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Old July 12 2013, 02:20 AM   #917
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

She's just playing him, waiting for the right time to strike, and take over.
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Old August 5 2013, 10:17 PM   #918
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Anyone who's hired as captain, or anyone who's in a position of authority for that matter, must make controversial decisions, that's why they're appointed to be captain, it's their job to make a decision whether subordinates like it or not. There will always be disent and disagreement over decisions, but it's not the role of a captain to please everybody.
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Old August 5 2013, 10:32 PM   #919
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

True.

But they are not put into a position to murder someone. They should also recuse themselves if they are emotionally involved esp. in the outcome.
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Old August 5 2013, 10:50 PM   #920
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

picardo wrote: View Post
Anyone who's hired as captain, or anyone who's in a position of authority for that matter, must make controversial decisions, that's why they're appointed to be captain, it's their job to make a decision whether subordinates like it or not. There will always be disent and disagreement over decisions, but it's not the role of a captain to please everybody.
That is a gross misinterpretation. A captain does make the final decisions and the subordinates need to follow them, yes. But that's not carte blanche to make unlawful and morally questionable decisions.


Besides, what would Janeway have done had the procedure gone wrong and Tuvix, Tuvok and Neelix died all at the same time?
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Old August 5 2013, 11:13 PM   #921
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

picardo wrote: View Post
Anyone who's hired as captain, or anyone who's in a position of authority for that matter, must make controversial decisions, that's why they're appointed to be captain, it's their job to make a decision whether subordinates like it or not. There will always be disent and disagreement over decisions, but it's not the role of a captain to please everybody.
The captain is not god and isn't allowed to select who lives and who dies based on her personal preferences.
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Old August 6 2013, 12:11 AM   #922
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

In certain situations that's exactly what any officer in command has to do.

Everyone is going to die unless you send Geordie up a heavily irradiated Jeffieries tube to change a fuse.

This however was not one of those situations.
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Old August 6 2013, 12:29 AM   #923
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
picardo wrote: View Post
Anyone who's hired as captain, or anyone who's in a position of authority for that matter, must make controversial decisions, that's why they're appointed to be captain, it's their job to make a decision whether subordinates like it or not. There will always be disent and disagreement over decisions, but it's not the role of a captain to please everybody.
That is a gross misinterpretation. A captain does make the final decisions and the subordinates need to follow them, yes. But that's not carte blanche to make unlawful and morally questionable decisions.


Besides, what would Janeway have done had the procedure gone wrong and Tuvix, Tuvok and Neelix died all at the same time?
You don't "know" that the decision is or is not lawful. Right now as the laws are written in the US, the legal action would be to separate the two, because it is illegal to use any part of a human's body, even after death with out express permission. As far as morality goes, that is a personal decision, my morality may not be yours but it is just as valid as yours. You cannot legislate morality, that's why prohibition didn't work. That's why anti-abortion laws will not work. You can view anything by your own set of moral parameters, but you have no right to impose those parameters on anyone else.

Janeway was in charge, she made a decision and I don't notice Tuvok or Neelix wanting to be reassembles as Tuvix after they were separated.

You can think what ever you want, but you cannot impose your idea of morality on anyone else. If you are captain someday you can make the decision to keep Tuvix, but then you might get sued by Tuvok's family. But what ever you do, there will be those that believe you acted in an immoral and criminal action.

Finally there could be no other outcome for that episode, the regulars had contracts and the guest star didn't. Think about this, do you really believe that the producers wanted to trash their main character, or did the want to show her making hard decisions. I don't believe anyone in charge actually thought that they were showing the Captain of Voyager as an immoral criminal.
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Old August 6 2013, 12:44 AM   #924
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

If it was just a question of timing, they could have held the story over and gotten rid of Lien with a Tuvix-like story.

Harry + Kes = Hot young stacked new Asian girlish regular... I say girlish in appearance, but I'm thinking hermaphrodite under the hood.

(Bye, bye Harry too.)
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Old August 6 2013, 12:56 AM   #925
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

As in, "Hi! I'm Kim Kes. Pleased to meet you."
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Old August 6 2013, 01:06 AM   #926
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
In certain situations that's exactly what any officer in command has to do.

Everyone is going to die unless you send Geordie up a heavily irradiated Jeffieries tube to change a fuse.

This however was not one of those situations.
That's different. Troi sent "Geordi" to fix the broken fuse because he was the one who knew how. That's not personal preference. Janeway decided to kill Tuvix because she liked Tuvok and Neelix better. Otherwise Kes's emotional plea and crying wouldn't have caused her to make a choice as it did.
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Old August 6 2013, 01:29 AM   #927
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

You're combatively agreeing with me.

I always liked what Garibaldi once said: "You may not come back alive, but that's okay because your CO has the moral authority to make that call."

melakon, what we are looking at is most probably Hes, or Karry.

Which would walk our way into a problem with Carey wondering why some punk stole his name?
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Old August 6 2013, 01:36 AM   #928
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
You're combatively agreeing with me.

I always liked what Garibaldi once said: "You may not come back alive, but that's okay because your CO has the moral authority to make that call."

melakon, what we are looking at is most probably Hes, or Karry.

Which would walk our way into a problem with Carey wondering why some punk stole his name?
Or go with Herry Karry...
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Old August 6 2013, 01:59 AM   #929
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Normally I think only hipsters use nouns as verbs, but I believe that this time I might just let it fly.
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Old October 10 2013, 07:03 PM   #930
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I like Tuvix.

You're welcome, GoRe Star.
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