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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

View Poll Results: Strongest ship in the Federation fleet during the Dominion War
Galaxy Class 24 77.42%
Defiant Class 5 16.13%
Akira Class 1 3.23%
Excelsior Class 0 0%
Steamrunner Class 0 0%
Norway Class 1 3.23%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 3 2013, 04:37 AM   #16
AllStarEntprise
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Prometheus Class!
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Old August 3 2013, 04:43 AM   #17
R. Star
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Prometheus Class!
No evidence the thing actually fought in the war. It's anti-theft system certainly needed some work.
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Old August 3 2013, 04:46 AM   #18
AllStarEntprise
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

^ indeed. That is a shame though. Just like their is no concrete evidence Sovereign classes fought. Would it have been so hard to have flexed some cash to make digital models of those ships for Dominion Campaigns?

I voted Galaxy though.
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Old August 3 2013, 05:35 AM   #19
Dukhat
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Melakon wrote: View Post
The problem I had with them destroying Defiant and then bringing her right back is it was just a shock moment for the writing staff to throw in there. I suspect they were trying to re-create that effect on the audience as when the Odyssey was dive-bombed by the Jem'Hadar. When the preview for that first appeared in syndication, everyone thought it was the Enterprise.

But obviously they only got a similar class ship so that the production didn't have to build an entirely new bridge set before wrapping up the series.
Yes, I felt exactly the same way. I remember feeling very shocked when the Defiant was destroyed. Then I immediately felt cheated of that shock a few eps later when they got a new one. But that was nothing compared to the irritation I felt when they ended up using stock footage of a previous battle for the finale, which was when I realized that that was why the "new" Defiant was the same as the old one.

I think the only similar instance that irritated me more was when the Delta Flyer was blown into itty-bitty bits in a season finale, only to be shown to be "rebuilt" exactly as before an episode later. That was even more of a cheap cop-out than the Defiant was.

As for the OP, I don't think any ship was more powerful than another, just more technically advanced.
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Old August 3 2013, 08:42 AM   #20
Roboturner913
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Yeah, it would have been nice if they had gotten some other kind of ship. The Defiant went out in pretty spectacular fashion and it was a shocking turn of events. Then they turn around and replace it with the same exact ship.

19-year-old me wrote a rather fanboyish alternate version of WYLB in which the new ship was an evolved/perfected version of the Defiant class named Saratoga and Sisko made a rear admiral. I even started on a season 8, with the core characters Kira/Ezri/Bashir/Nog and Benteen from Paradise Lost as the full-time captain of the Defiant.
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Old August 3 2013, 08:57 AM   #21
Edit_XYZ
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

kgartm1185 wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post

The Defiant still blew up.
Only to be 'resurrected' immediately - identical ship, crew with no losses.

PS:
Sran, you remain, as always, a troll.
Actually, that wasn't the same ship. It was the Sao Paulo. And personally I don't get why Sisko wanted another Defiant class ship. I'd be ashamed if I got one of those. I'd rather get an Excelsior, Akira, Galaxy, or Nebula class.
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, - especially on a tv show -, then it is a duck.

As for the other shown classes of federation ships - as said, on-screen performance against dominion ships - even buffed up cardassian ships - was underwhelming. Have we even seen one take out a dominion bug throughout the show?
Sisko choosing a defiant was out of self-preservation.
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Old August 3 2013, 08:21 PM   #22
Sran
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

kgartm1185 wrote: View Post
And personally I don't get why Sisko wanted another Defiant class ship.
When is it ever stated that he wanted a Defiant-class ship? The only dialogue about the vessel happened in "Dogs of War" when Dax stated that she didn't realize they were getting another Defiant-class ship. Sisko says nothing about wanting that type of ship.

In any event, it's not surprising that he would get a ship similar to what he had before. Sisko helped design the Defiant and his crew was familiar with the vessel's systems.

--Sran
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Old August 3 2013, 08:25 PM   #23
Sran
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Sisko choosing a defiant was out of self-preservation.
Except that there's no evidence whatsoever that he actually chose the vessel. He got what was available. We have no way of knowing whether he actually selected Sao Paulo from a list of ready-made ships.

--Sran
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Old August 3 2013, 08:36 PM   #24
Timo
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

In any event, it's not surprising that he would get a ship similar to what he had before. Sisko helped design the Defiant and his crew was familiar with the vessel's systems.
And that brings about an interesting issue. Apparently, not everything our heroes did to their little ship was "public knowledge" - indeed, even the ambitious, unscrupulous and high-ranking Leyton could not dig up all of it in "Paradise Lost". And any ship built to the original Defiant class blueprints would have been a lemon, supposedly, as per "The Search". So, was the Sao Paulo better, worse or similar to the original?

What had O'Brien changed? Had he solved the original problems, or had he merely imposed flight envelope limitations so that the problems wouldn't manifest? Had he upgunned or downgunned the ship, upengined or downengined, tuned or detuned? Was the Sao Paulo a series production model, or simply the last of the original, failed and thus expendable prototypes?

Timo Saloniemi
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Old August 3 2013, 08:57 PM   #25
Sran
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Timo wrote: View Post
In any event, it's not surprising that he would get a ship similar to what he had before. Sisko helped design the Defiant and his crew was familiar with the vessel's systems.
And that brings about an interesting issue. Apparently, not everything our heroes did to their little ship was "public knowledge" - indeed, even the ambitious, unscrupulous and high-ranking Leyton could not dig up all of it in "Paradise Lost". And any ship built to the original Defiant class blueprints would have been a lemon, supposedly, as per "The Search". So, was the Sao Paulo better, worse or similar to the original?

What had O'Brien changed? Had he solved the original problems, or had he merely imposed flight envelope limitations so that the problems wouldn't manifest? Had he upgunned or downgunned the ship, upengined or downengined, tuned or detuned? Was the Sao Paulo a series production model, or simply the last of the original, failed and thus expendable prototypes?
Interesting questions. O'Brien makes a comment to Worf about the shield generators having been reconfigured, but nothing else is said about changes or upgrades to the vessel. We never hear of problems with the Sao Paulo, but she appears on screen only in the finale after being introduced in "The Dogs of War." It's possible any noted problems were sorted out during the vessel's shakedown cruise after the war was over, but there's no on-screen evidence either way.

--Sran
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Old August 4 2013, 06:13 PM   #26
kgartm1185
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Sran wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Sisko choosing a defiant was out of self-preservation.
Except that there's no evidence whatsoever that he actually chose the vessel. He got what was available. We have no way of knowing whether he actually selected Sao Paulo from a list of ready-made ships.

--Sran
There's no evidence whatsoever that he "got what was available", either.
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Old August 4 2013, 06:27 PM   #27
Dukhat
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

kgartm1185 wrote: View Post
Sran wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Sisko choosing a defiant was out of self-preservation.
Except that there's no evidence whatsoever that he actually chose the vessel. He got what was available. We have no way of knowing whether he actually selected Sao Paulo from a list of ready-made ships.

--Sran
There's no evidence whatsoever that he "got what was available", either.
You mean other than that there was a war on and Sisko probably didn't have the luxury to pick and choose the style of ship for his next command?
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Old August 4 2013, 06:28 PM   #28
Sran
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

kgartm1185 wrote: View Post
There's no evidence whatsoever that he "got what was available", either.
Wrong (again). Sisko received the Sao Paulo; therefore, it can be inferred that that Sao Paulo was available. Otherwise, he would not have received it. This is supported by on-screen events. What's not clear is whether he actually asked for the ship. But how did I know this would be too complicated for you?

--Sran
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Old August 4 2013, 06:30 PM   #29
Melakon
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Timo wrote: View Post
. . .So, was the Sao Paulo better, worse or similar to the original?

What had O'Brien changed? Had he solved the original problems, or had he merely imposed flight envelope limitations so that the problems wouldn't manifest? Had he upgunned or downgunned the ship, upengined or downengined, tuned or detuned? Was the Sao Paulo a series production model, or simply the last of the original, failed and thus expendable prototypes?

Timo Saloniemi
I always assumed that information about any upgrades O'Brien made to Defiant's systems were forwarded to Starfleet, so that other ships of its class could be modified. This would also to apply to Scott, LaForge, Torres, and Tucker in terms of their ships (though Torres is the exception, until contact was re-established with Alpha Quadrant).
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Old August 4 2013, 06:34 PM   #30
Sran
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Re: What is the strongest ship in the Federation fleet in the Dominion

Melakon wrote: View Post
I always assumed that information about any upgrades O'Brien made to Defiant's systems were forwarded to Starfleet, so that other ships of its class could be modified. This would also to apply to Scott, LaForge, Torres, and Tucker in terms of their ships (though Torres is the exception, until contact was re-established with Alpha Quadrant).
Except that there's dialogue in "Paradise Lost" that contradicts this. Captain Benteen says, "We've been unable to stop the Defiant. Someone has equipped her with ablative armor and neglected to inform Starfleet Command."

It's possible O'Brien eventually filed a report on the upgrades, but if he did, it was a while after they were made.

--Sran
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