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Old August 3 2013, 08:52 AM   #31
Tiberius
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Re: Ocampa

Timo wrote: View Post
With polygamy, the odds are not as bad as that, but eventually the species will still disappear.

However, the dialogue in "Elogium" never establishes flat out that the Ocampa would only be fertile once in their lives. The closest it comes to that is the phrase quoted above, and as said, it can be interpreted as meaning that the Ocampa females can only start producing children at this specific time; nothing goes against them continuing it thereafter.
Yes, but that's a very stretched interpretation. Kes says, "The elogium occurs only once. If I am ever going to have a child, it has to be now." A human girl wouldn't say, "I've started puberty. If I'm ever going to have a child, it has to be now," despite the fact that going through puberty occurs only once. From what Kes says, it seems that she can only become pregnant while she is going through the elogium, which only happens once. And given the way she says, "it has to be now," it seems that this is a temporary situation, not comparable to the several decades that Human women are fertile.
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Old August 3 2013, 09:30 AM   #32
Guy Gardener
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Re: Ocampa

Here's what I think happened.

Susperia's Ocampa could eat matter with their mind, which combusted as a by product, which got them high.

Look at Ocampa.

Ocampa is a desert because something removed the nucleogenic particals which are needed for precipitation (look it up in a fake science manual sometime.).

Caretaker took "credit" for that.

If a thousand years ago Ocampan Junkies were burning down their planet chasing the dragon after the Nacene dickered with their biology... That explained a lot.

Why Kes had no idea that she could get high from just doing something as simple as eating matter with her mind and why the Nacene did not move the Ocampa to another planet when if any single Ocampa could have ever again figured out how to trigger their matter eating, they'd kill that world too.

So yes if they were tinkering with the Ocampa to make some changes why not more as to deal with their conception practices?
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Old August 3 2013, 04:38 PM   #33
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Re: Ocampa

R. Star wrote: View Post
Ocampa are the most silly race ever. Just how do they even reproduce? They give birth standing up through their back and someone has to catch the baby...but what if someone isn't there?
Giraffe give birth standing, with the baby falling about six feet.

Some thoughts, given how quickly the Ocampa mature to adulthood, their pregnancies could be very brief, maybe only two or three months between conception and birth.

The child could be up and tottering the first day.

Actually carrying the baby on her back during pregnancy would definately be easier than how Humans do it, more freedom of movement.. Kind of like a backpack. How the fertized egg gets there is just a matter of plumbing.

Where do Ocampa girl's have their vaginas anyway?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Both Kes and her daughter were shown to have single children so they don't have litters or anything.
Just as twins (and triplets) run in some Human families, Kes' family might run toward single births. Doesn't mean it's the norm for her people.

Melakon wrote: View Post
The other problem with them is their senior medical and scientific specialists could have at most only 9 years of experience in their chosen field.
The Ocampa could experience time duration and life events differently than we do. Intellectually, a single year for a Human would be like several years for a Ocampa.

While she did have living quarters assigned to her, was it ever directly stated that Kes needed to sleep?



Last edited by T'Girl; August 3 2013 at 05:11 PM.
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Old August 4 2013, 01:54 AM   #34
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Re: Ocampa

A human being laughing at an Ocampan's life expectancy is no different than a Vulcan laughing ( ) at a human's life expectancy.

Vulcans must have such pity thinking about the brief spasm that is the human condition and must make some sort of dog-year-fatasticly-ignorant-and-telepathically-void-(souless)-ike equation to justify humanity not throwing the towel in.
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Old August 4 2013, 02:10 AM   #35
Melakon
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Re: Ocampa

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Where do Ocampa girl's have their vaginas anyway?
Assuming the sperm and the baby use the same access port as with humans, it must be somewhere along the back. Which then raises the question of how much the spine interferes with the necessary procedures.
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Old August 4 2013, 04:49 AM   #36
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Re: Ocampa

I assumed the "sack" that was mentioned where the baby grows was (mostly) external to her body like a boil or a testicle.

Does multiple babies, twins, triplets mean multiple sacks?
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Old August 4 2013, 05:19 AM   #37
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Re: Ocampa

Maybe they hang like cherries on a tree.
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Old August 4 2013, 06:07 AM   #38
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Re: Ocampa

Certainly brings a new shine to the phrase "popping ones cherry"
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Old August 4 2013, 06:51 AM   #39
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Re: Ocampa

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Certainly brings a new shine to the phrase "popping ones cherry"
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Old August 4 2013, 07:05 AM   #40
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Re: Ocampa

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Certainly brings a new shine to the phrase "popping ones cherry"
You, sir, win yet another thread.
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Old August 4 2013, 11:31 AM   #41
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Re: Ocampa

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
A human being laughing at an Ocampan's life expectancy is no different than a Vulcan laughing ( ) at a human's life expectancy.

Vulcans must have such pity thinking about the brief spasm that is the human condition and must make some sort of dog-year-fatasticly-ignorant-and-telepathically-void-(souless)-ike equation to justify humanity not throwing the towel in.
We'll we've seen Humans life to be almost 150 and Vulcans just over 200 Earth Years. For all we know 150 Vulcan Years could be about 200 Earth years.
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Old August 4 2013, 11:46 AM   #42
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Re: Ocampa

The universal translator converts all systems of measurement to the listeners standard.

It's a question of youth. Humans beings, if McCoy is the yardstick, keep getting older and older and older and even more useless as they get older and older and older... Human beings might be able to conceivably live for a very long time but they become too fragile to live anything close to a life of adventure, and would probably die instantly if they tried.

Forever old.

Vulcans seem to have a lot more usable prime of life equivalent to a human 30 to 45 that lasts for 150 years or longer.

Vulcans live for a max of 300 years. Sarek was two hundred when he got his dementia and with the correct medical care would continue to live on for another century despite his brain being completely rotten.

T'Pol was almost 70 yet looked like a fit 26 year old human woman in ridiculous fancy dress... Which would have made her 170 in Enterprise Squarred where she was not fit at all.
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Old August 5 2013, 05:41 PM   #43
Timo
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Re: Ocampa

Yes, but that's a very stretched interpretation.
Sure, but then again, it's trying to explain away a nonsensically written Trek factoid.

The idea is that unless Kes has her first child at this short window of opportunity they call elogium, she won't be able to have any, ever. There is no equivalent to that in human biology, but that's neither here nor there. Kes' own description of elogium does not equate it with puberty - that's just Janeway jumping to conclusions.

The universal translator converts all systems of measurement to the listeners standard.
Well, seconds and minutes, certainly - they are something we can easily verify, as they are quoted in contexts where they tick away as we watch. But whether "year" is a system of measurement or a physical phenomenon in its own right is a somewhat different matter. It does have its independent astronomical definition, after all. And if the local year comes with seasons, it will probably greatly affect one's perception of one's age ("She's thirteen springs young"; "He has seen two hundred and fifty-three winters").

As for McCoy, he might have been stricken with a dozen space ailments that make him an atypical specimen. Picard was a decade younger than Patrick Stewart, but Bashir was the same age as Siddig El Fadil; perhaps humans in fact age more slowly during their productive middle years, and thus not merely live longer but also prosper longer? Mark Jameson did seem awfully displeased with being a somewhat typical 85-year-old, thinking nature had dealt him with atypically bad cards for the 24th century.

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Old August 5 2013, 05:54 PM   #44
Melakon
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Re: Ocampa

Timo wrote: View Post
. . .Picard was a decade younger than Patrick Stewart. . .
I think you have that backwards. Stewart was 47 when starting TNG.
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Old August 5 2013, 06:02 PM   #45
Timo
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Re: Ocampa

Yeah, I put it badly: for any given birthday, Picard was "younger" than Stewart, because Picard was born earlier than Stewart but still looked like Stewart. That is, at seventy, Picard looked like sixty.

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