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Old August 3 2013, 02:46 AM   #181
Jeyl
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Photoman15 wrote: View Post
Nope. If David hadn't used pronto matter, the Genesis Project would never have gotten as far as having a starship (Reliant) searching for a test planet. Then never have been to Ceti Alpha 5, and in turn find Khan. Khan may have been found, later on, by another crew or not at all. None of WoK would have happened had David not used protomatter.
Even if that was the case, how does that make David responsible for the damages and deaths that Saavik is blaming him for? If you write a book about cookies and you decided to go through a different publisher to release the book early, are you responsible for the deaths of fans who died trying to get your book before it's original launch date?

I mean, how the heck was David supposed to know that if he had used Protomatter to get Genesis working that it would cause the Reliant to not notice that Ceti-Alpha Six exploded and that Ceti-Alpha Five was now a barren waste land? There is no way he could have known, so why pass judgement on him?
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Old August 3 2013, 03:13 AM   #182
Sran
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Jeyl wrote: View Post
I mean, how the heck was David supposed to know that if he had used Protomatter to get Genesis working that it would cause the Reliant to not notice that Ceti-Alpha Six exploded and that Ceti-Alpha Five was now a barren waste land? There is no way he could have known, so why pass judgement on him?
He wasn't, but that's not the point. The crux of Saavik's argument is that David acted rashly by incorporating the proto-matter into the Genesis matrix. A more responsible scientist might have waited until a safer option were available before proceeding with the Genesis experiments, even if meant putting the project on hold for months, years, or longer if that's what was necessary to find a better solution.

Instead of waiting, David decided to use the proto-matter. In doing so, he set in motion a chain of events that led to Khan's escape for Ceti Alpha V, the theft of the Reliant, the death of Spock, the destruction of USS Grissom, the theft and destruction of Enterprise, David's own death, and the death of the BOP crew. Did he mean for each of these things to happen? Of course not. But his behavior paved the way for the events that encompassed the creation and demise of the Genesis planet.

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Old August 3 2013, 04:39 AM   #183
The Old Building & Loan
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

I always wondered about Carol's culpability in the protomatter thing....She was the head of the project, how could she not know what was in the special sauce?
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Old August 3 2013, 09:01 AM   #184
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Certainly it was Carol (and not David) who arranged for the Reliant to begin a search for a suitable planet. The sequence of event leading to the deaths and destruction orginated with her determinating that genesis was ready.

Could David have slipped a few hundred thousand lines of code into the Genesis program? While a possibly, as project head Carol really should have seen the protomatter solution that David came up with.

Didn't she at least wonder how he fixed the problem that the protomatter was the solution for?

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Old August 3 2013, 01:09 PM   #185
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Whether Carol knew or not, it was David's idea to use proto matter to solve the problem. We don't know how the device actually works, but if the use of proto matter is just part of code, Carol might not have known.
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Old August 3 2013, 02:28 PM   #186
The Old Building & Loan
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

I think she looks bad either way. If she knew, she was the one ultimately responsible....If she didn't know, it makes her look gullible. The simple fact is that she never had to face the music because STIII ignored her existence. Thus it all fell on David's shoulders by default.
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Old August 3 2013, 07:23 PM   #187
Sran
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I always wondered about Carol's culpability in the protomatter thing....She was the head of the project, how could she not know what was in the special sauce?
Nothing's explicitly stated, but I always thought that Carol's involvement was more administrative than scientific. As the more established scientist, her involvement gave the project name recognition and credibility that it wouldn't have with David running the show. The younger Dr. Marcus, by contrast, was much more involved with the day-to-day running of the project: when the proto-matter was added to the Genesis matrix, it would have happened under his watch rather than his mother's.

That's not to say Carol doesn't bear some of the responsibility. But it's suggested that David added the proto-matter without consulting his mother (and possibly the rest of the team). As I said before, I don't think David anticipated the problems that eventually popped up, but his insistence on finishing the project on schedule set in motion a chain of events that lead to several deaths and an embarrassing political situation for the UFP.

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Old August 3 2013, 07:30 PM   #188
Sran
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Didn't she at least wonder how he fixed the problem that the protomatter was the solution for?
That suggests she knew there was a problem to begin with. That's the funny thing about research labs: the person who runs the lab doesn't necessarily know everything about every project that's going on. They certainly know who's working on what, but the day-to-day management of each project is handled by whomever is assigned to work on it.

The team leader or director of the lab is usually consulted if there's a need to significantly modify the project or to request additional funding in the event the project needs to be extended beyond its original timetable. But most of the time, people are left to their own devices in terms of making their project or part of the project work.

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Old August 4 2013, 07:40 PM   #189
Bad Thoughts
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

Janeway, in Scorpion pt. 1: "Then I guess I'm alone, after all."

It's not stupid or bizarre. It was just so mean and petty that it damaged the character in the long term, IMO.
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Old August 5 2013, 01:17 PM   #190
Forbin
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The sequence of event leading to the deaths and destruction orginated with her determinating that genesis was ready.
Sounds more like something Sarah Connor would do!
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Old August 8 2013, 07:00 AM   #191
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

"Dilithium chambers at maximum!"

The fuck?
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Old August 8 2013, 09:03 PM   #192
JarodRussell
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

-Brett- wrote: View Post
"Dilithium chambers at maximum!"

The fuck?
"Thrusters on full."




Ha, that movie is crowded with literary gems.
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Old August 9 2013, 04:55 PM   #193
Praetor
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

LilyThompson wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post

And I love that movie.
Well, dude, you read my mind. Not only is it out of character, but it's out of place. A better line would have been for him to be silently shaking with anger, if he had to be that emotional at all. It was a great tear-jerking scene until this happened.
This too. And I liked that movie. It just seemed... unneccessary.

"I'm with Starfleet, we don't lie." ...is probably my overall choice.

The Borg Queen's "Was that good for you?" was pretty stupid, too.
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Old August 9 2013, 08:18 PM   #194
JirinPanthosa
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

I thought the entire role-reversal segment in STID was terrible. It was contrived and it forced them to have a really anticlimactic ten minutes. They should have come up with their own scene instead of bogarting the TWOK scene just for the sake of giddying the fanboys.

Another one: "Unfortunately we only have room for one candidate in the academy this year."

That entire thing in Coming of Age where every academy recruit has to win a techie decathlon against other recruits and only the winner of that particular group gets admitted was one of the dumbest things ever.
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Old August 9 2013, 08:43 PM   #195
CaptainBearclaw
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Re: The Single Worst Line of Dialogue in the entire Star Trek Franchis

"Nothing in the universe can go Warp 10" - You know where it's from.

I know Brannon Braga wasn't a TOS fan, but someone should have told him that there's well over 10 episodes where the Enterprise goes over warp 10. In "Wink of an Eye" they went to 14.4!!!!!!!
Hell, in the Filmation series they went 36!

P.S. I am aware of the change in the Warp scale, but my point still stands.
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