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Old July 21 2013, 08:48 AM   #91
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

All I'll say is that the bridge and lobby's location is 100% indisputable, and scaled perfectly to fit exactly in a 725m Enterprise as shown in the infographic. Any smaller and they don't fit.

But yeah, we should take this to the Starship Size Argument in the XI+ forum. Apologies for derailing your thread, MadMan1701A!
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Old July 21 2013, 10:32 AM   #92
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

Note to the OP: You could check out the Artisan model of the Vengeance for scale. Looks pretty legit to me. Considering the price, I think you'll have to settle with pictures from the net, though.
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Old July 21 2013, 01:58 PM   #93
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

Yeah, $10k. That's just...wow...
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Old July 22 2013, 06:03 PM   #94
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

Belz... wrote: View Post
Note to the OP: You could check out the Artisan model of the Vengeance for scale. Looks pretty legit to me. Considering the price, I think you'll have to settle with pictures from the net, though.
Wow... that looks incredible! If the same guys that built the ST2009 Enterprise model built that one, I might know who built it. Trying to find out now.

Sorry about the lack of progress... been way too busy around here.

-Ricky
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Old July 22 2013, 08:24 PM   #95
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

I just realized... You should do a "Starships" avatar of the Vengeance, Sir Madman!!

Cheers,
-CM-
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Old July 28 2013, 03:19 PM   #96
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

I wanna see this finished !

Have you seen this : http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-t3QsoLyF3M...an+replica.jpg

Might help with detail ?
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Old July 29 2013, 02:38 AM   #97
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

Exquisite work as always sir, although I do find the original design itself leaves a bit to be desired. Your work, however, remains beyond reproach.
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Old August 1 2013, 07:10 PM   #98
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

Is it just me that loves Vengeance *because* it's so ugly ?

Like - it wasn't built for looks in any way. It was built purely for battle.

I think it looks like a beast.
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Old August 1 2013, 07:36 PM   #99
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

I kind of like it. In fact, a part of me likes it better than the NuEnterprise because it's basically a new design, even though it has all the familiar shape primitives and configurations. The Enterprise itself, in my own personal aesthetic, has deviated too much from the original design and in too many odd ways (curved pylons, bulbous nacelles w/ blue bussards, absurdly huge size, brewery, etc). Vengeance is a nasty looking thing, but as you say, it was built for combat and nothing else. I personally think it works. It isn't the Enterprise, so anything can be done to it as required by the plot.

I think a lot of folks don't like it due to the political aspects within Starfleet that it represents in the post-Roddenberry multiverse. It is Section 31's hotrod, for lack of a better term. Many Roddenberry loyalists vilify DS9 in general and S31 in particular for egregiously deviating from the Great Bird's "vision" of the future (for the same reason that I think DS9 is the best Trek series since TOS). It's a psychosomatic response, not to ugliness of the design, but rather to how far the ideal has fallen from Utopian principles, symbolic of the "ugliness" that has permeated Trek and its alter ego of the Federation.

Then again, maybe I'm just talking out of my ass.
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Old August 2 2013, 08:47 AM   #100
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

Slightly off topic, but where BSG fans complaining this much about the look of Galactica in the reboot a few years ago?

Loving the model though man, seriously great work!!
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Old August 2 2013, 02:04 PM   #101
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

Some did, yeah. I think what we got there still kept the basic shape of the Galactica without deviating too much from the original. The thru-deck landing bays and multi-level launch platforms made a lot of sense, and I personally liked the retractable pods. What we might have gotten, however, could have been a lot worse. I think at one point (mentioned in one of the early commentary tracks) they were considering modeling the nuGalactica off of some kind of weird modern-art vase they had in one of their offices. Another conceptual design for Galactica, IIRC, became the Cylons' Resurrection Ship - that cathedral-looking thing. I think those decisions for a battlestar would have made even my stomach churn and I like to think I have a pretty open mind about ship designs in general. What we got, wasn't too bad.

I really liked the Pegasus and Valkyrie designs, too. Unbeknownst to some, the original idea for TOS was to have battlestars of all different shapes and sizes (much like what we got in NuBSG), but Larson couldn't get the budget to build multiple large-scale ships like that, especially if it was only just for the one opening "peace convoy" scene. So, we wound up with one battlestar miniature, filmed at multiple angles and with different name placards (sometimes they were blank) for the Cylon attack. NuBSG at least gave us some more designs.
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Old August 2 2013, 02:22 PM   #102
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Some did, yeah. I think what we got there still kept the basic shape of the Galactica without deviating too much from the original.
Are you saying that didn't happen with the Enterprise? Look the overall silhouette of it. It's more like the original Enterprise then nuGalactica was to oldGalactica. nuPegasus resembled oldGalactica more then nuGalactica did.
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Old August 2 2013, 03:02 PM   #103
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

Sure, at its core, the NuEnterprise does generally follow the same lines as the original. The difference (to me) lies in the things that changed.

As I mentioned in NuBSG, the landing bays, armaments, etc., I thought were better thought out than the original. There seemed to be more attention paid to technical and military detail in NuBSG than TOSBSG and the NuGalactica's design reflects that. TOS purists would likely disagree.

As I mentioned in NuTrek, the bulbous warp nacelles, curved pylons, lack of imagination over the engineering design (although I loved the new warp core in STID) and inconsistency in scaling IMO detracts from the NuEnterprise design. Many people who like NuTrek would likely disagree.

In the end, it all comes down to aesthetics and a subjective eye to art design. We can rationalize technical details all we want, but in the end it is all simply opinion, which is why I started my second sentence you quoted with "I think", rather than "I know" . Sure the NuEnterprise followed the general shape without deviating too much from the original, but in my opinion, the design choices used to attain that deviation didn't work as well as they did in NuBSG, but they will always get proponents and detractors no matter what they do.

And, since we're on teh Interwebz, EVERYONE has an equal voice on the matter!
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Old August 2 2013, 03:21 PM   #104
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Sure, at its core, the NuEnterprise does generally follow the same lines as the original. The difference (to me) lies in the things that changed.

As I mentioned in NuBSG, the landing bays, armaments, etc., I thought were better thought out than the original. There seemed to be more attention paid to technical and military detail in NuBSG than TOSBSG and the NuGalactica's design reflects that. TOS purists would likely disagree.

As I mentioned in NuTrek, the bulbous warp nacelles, curved pylons, lack of imagination over the engineering design (although I loved the new warp core in STID) and inconsistency in scaling IMO detracts from the NuEnterprise design. Many people who like NuTrek would likely disagree.

In the end, it all comes down to aesthetics and a subjective eye to art design. We can rationalize technical details all we want, but in the end it is all simply opinion, which is why I started my second sentence you quoted with "I think", rather than "I know" . Sure the NuEnterprise followed the general shape without deviating too much from the original, but in my opinion, the design choices used to attain that deviation didn't work as well as they did in NuBSG, but they will always get proponents and detractors no matter what they do.

And, since we're on teh Interwebz, EVERYONE has an equal voice on the matter!

Very much agreed about the part where everyone can have their own opinion. And that can talk and discuss is only a good thing, I think.
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Old August 10 2013, 10:45 AM   #105
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Re: New Build, USS Vengeance from Star Trek XII

Dunno if it was mentioned upthread, but the Cinfex article on STID describes the Vegeance as being about 4,500 feet long.
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