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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 1 2013, 12:59 PM   #151
Dream
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Plus, we have no proof that Picard switched back to three shifts when he returned to command.
We do know that Troi started wearing the uniform much more after Jellico left.
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Old August 1 2013, 08:07 PM   #152
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Pretty poor line of reasoning.

It implies that every situation is equal and there is only one "correct" way to do things.

Picard was running a peace time explorer/diplomatic taxi. Jellico was gearing up for what could have been full-scale war.

Plus, we have no proof that Picard switched back to three shifts when he returned to command.
Precisely. I'd add that each captain themselves learned from different commanding officers earlier in their careers. We don't know exactly why Jellico preferred a four-shift rotation as opposed to three: it's possible he made the change because that was how various ships he'd served on worked, and he wanted to try something similar with Enterprise.

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Old August 1 2013, 09:27 PM   #153
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Sran wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Pretty poor line of reasoning.

It implies that every situation is equal and there is only one "correct" way to do things.

Picard was running a peace time explorer/diplomatic taxi. Jellico was gearing up for what could have been full-scale war.

Plus, we have no proof that Picard switched back to three shifts when he returned to command.
Precisely. I'd add that each captain themselves learned from different commanding officers earlier in their careers. We don't know exactly why Jellico preferred a four-shift rotation as opposed to three: it's possible he made the change because that was how various ships he'd served on worked, and he wanted to try something similar with Enterprise.

--Sran
Sisko and Kira switched to it in DS9, citing shorter shifts would keep everyone more well rested. That might be optimal in a potential combat situation, and could be Jellico's reasoning.
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Old August 1 2013, 09:42 PM   #154
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

R. Star wrote: View Post
Sran wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Pretty poor line of reasoning.

It implies that every situation is equal and there is only one "correct" way to do things.

Picard was running a peace time explorer/diplomatic taxi. Jellico was gearing up for what could have been full-scale war.

Plus, we have no proof that Picard switched back to three shifts when he returned to command.
Precisely. I'd add that each captain themselves learned from different commanding officers earlier in their careers. We don't know exactly why Jellico preferred a four-shift rotation as opposed to three: it's possible he made the change because that was how various ships he'd served on worked, and he wanted to try something similar with Enterprise.

--Sran
Sisko and Kira switched to it in DS9, citing shorter shifts would keep everyone more well rested. That might be optimal in a potential combat situation, and could be Jellico's reasoning.
Interesting...it means each section needs 25% more people actually qualified for the position. Also, wouldn't there be sections more important than others?...and NOT something that can be done at the drop of a hat?*

*I mean, it *can* be done, but we never saw if they did it and then ****ed themselves in an emergency.

EX:

Geordi: "Bridge we have a coolant leak...standby..."
Jelico: "Engineering?...Geordi....GEORDI!............. "

Geordi: "Standby....(yelling in background)...standby...okay...okay. We got it under control bridge."

Jellico: "WTF is going on down there??
Geordi: "WTF is going on Captain is you have 5% of my team on guard duty, 10% eating in 10 Forward and 5% asleep! Right now half my team are having to run two stations through the same station and tab back and forth!"
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Old August 1 2013, 09:48 PM   #155
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

We do know that Troi started wearing the uniform much more after Jellico left.
Her and Wesley looked so much better. Kira too.
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Old August 1 2013, 10:35 PM   #156
Sran
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Interesting...it means each section needs 25% more people actually qualified for the position. Also, wouldn't there be sections more important than others?...and NOT something that can be done at the drop of a hat?*

*I mean, it *can* be done, but we never saw if they did it and then ****ed themselves in an emergency.

EX:

Geordi: "Bridge we have a coolant leak...standby..."
Jelico: "Engineering?...Geordi....GEORDI!............. "

Geordi: "Standby....(yelling in background)...standby...okay...okay. We got it under control bridge."

Jellico: "WTF is going on down there??
Geordi: "WTF is going on Captain is you have 5% of my team on guard duty, 10% eating in 10 Forward and 5% asleep! Right now half my team are having to run two stations through the same station and tab back and forth!"
Not necessarily. You're assuming that each duty shift has an entirely different group of officers. There's no evidence to suggest that's the case. If a particular area of the ship needs five people to run it, who's to say a crew member can't be part of more than one shift?

--Sran
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Old August 2 2013, 03:10 AM   #157
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

If Jellico wants a four shift rotation he has every right to it, even if it is unusual. The crew don't have the right to ignore the order.
Jellico has his reasons, and they are probably sound given his command experience. No one condemns Commander Adama on BSG for refusing to network computers despite it being considered at least as idiosyncratic.

Its worth noting that Jellico is preparing for a very specific mission, one that he actually expects to fail hence the lack of confidence Troi detects - it alway struck me as odd that we are supposed to see this revelation as putting the man in a bad light given the circumstances. Along similar lines as he says, given the mission they are on he has no time to be touchy feely in his change over. He expects he is going to have to take Enterprise into combat and wants to be prepared.
While his command style would be different to Picard there is nothing to indicate that Jellico would be so hardnosed if the situation were less critical.
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Old August 2 2013, 03:41 AM   #158
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Since Picard didn't do it and I know that Picard is a very good commanding officer, then I can only conclude that a four shift rotation isn't necessary.
Really? That's the only thing you can conclude? kind of a weak deduction, given all the possible variables & lack of information.

Picard didn't write the book on commanding a starship, nor is this one command of his indicative of all command conditions. That Jellico makes them do something Picard didn't make them do is not a reason to suggest he's wrong or a poor captain

And I still maintain that it's a better line of reasoning to suggest that since no deleterious effects of Jellico's orders were ever brought to light, then his orders didn't effect things as negatively as the complaints made it appear they would.

Things may have sucked compared to the good old Picard days, but the potential "Significant" problems Riker complained about were apparently not significant enough to be worth mentioning, once the changes were in place, & no ill effects befell the mission
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Old August 2 2013, 10:12 AM   #159
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Since Picard didn't do it and I know that Picard is a very good commanding officer, then I can only conclude that a four shift rotation isn't necessary.
Really? That's the only thing you can conclude? kind of a weak deduction, given all the possible variables & lack of information.

Picard didn't write the book on commanding a starship, nor is this one command of his indicative of all command conditions. That Jellico makes them do something Picard didn't make them do is not a reason to suggest he's wrong or a poor captain

And I still maintain that it's a better line of reasoning to suggest that since no deleterious effects of Jellico's orders were ever brought to light, then his orders didn't effect things as negatively as the complaints made it appear they would.

Things may have sucked compared to the good old Picard days, but the potential "Significant" problems Riker complained about were apparently not significant enough to be worth mentioning, once the changes were in place, & no ill effects befell the mission
Excuse me, but Riker claims that Picard wrote the book on the Enterprise, in the Best of Both Worlds.
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Old August 2 2013, 11:53 AM   #160
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Excuse me, but Riker claims that Picard wrote the book on the Enterprise, in the Best of Both Worlds.
While worrying that since Picards knowledge was part of the Borg he needed to think of things that Picard would not know. Maybe he should have switched to a four shift rotation......
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Old August 2 2013, 12:13 PM   #161
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

sariel2005 wrote: View Post
Excuse me, but Riker claims that Picard wrote the book on the Enterprise, in the Best of Both Worlds.
While worrying that since Picards knowledge was part of the Borg he needed to think of things that Picard would not know. Maybe he should have switched to a four shift rotation......
Yep, with a four shift rotation the Borg don't even make it past that Mars defense thing. Don't fuck with the four shift rotation people. It is to be feared.
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Old August 2 2013, 06:56 PM   #162
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

sariel2005 wrote: View Post
Excuse me, but Riker claims that Picard wrote the book on the Enterprise, in the Best of Both Worlds.
While worrying that since Picards knowledge was part of the Borg he needed to think of things that Picard would not know. Maybe he should have switched to a four shift rotation......
"Incorrect strategy Number One. Picard never would have risked the ship for two more hours of internet surfing."
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Old August 4 2013, 11:14 PM   #163
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

I can't watch "Chain of Command" without laughing after seeing this video. Totally ruined it for me.
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Old August 5 2013, 12:10 AM   #164
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Jellico was great, the crew of the Enterprise were a bunch of whiny little girls.

-Chris
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Old August 5 2013, 02:06 AM   #165
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Re: So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

I haven't watched Chain of Command in a while but when Riker felt that switching to a four-shift rotation wasn't going to work, he didn't decide to run this by Jellico? If so, then what kind of an officer does that? If Riker felt it wasn't going to work, he should have told Jellico this. Jellico could still order this to happen of course but still, what kind of a first officer wouldn't relay this information to his captain before being prompted to do so?
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