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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old July 31 2013, 05:34 PM   #256
teya
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

R. Star wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
Katie O'Clare wrote: View Post
I think Tuvok is the perfect person to talk to and take advice from when your emotions are a mess and you need a rock to hold onto. He is that rock..and I think thats what Janeway sees and appreciates. And like you guys said, since he is able to look at the situation objectively he can offer some other perspectives that Janeway couldn't/wouldn't see.

Btw, Tuvix is one of my favourite episodes...I think its astonishing that they wrote a character and found an actor to portray someone so likable in such an incredibly short time. Despite myself I found myself rooting for Tuvix in the end. I really was sad to see him go. He was such a unique character it would have been interesting to see him develop and adapt further.
I always wondered something about Tuvix. He picked up the best qualites of both Tuvok and Neelix and was a sweetheart. But what if he picked up the worst from each. What if Tuvix had been a complete jerk? Would people have had any hesitation about getting rid of him? Would we still be discussing whether or not it was murder? Or would everyone have been happy to see him go and not given it another thought?
That's the fundamental error in this process: basing the decision on the likability of Tuvix. Janeway did that, or else Kes's tearful plea for wanting Neelix back wouldn't have been what pushed her over the edge in making a decision. It doesn't matter if he was a first class jerk or not. That doesn't invalidate his right to live. That would be like me saying since I don't like you, I have the right to harvest your organs to save two people I like more. That's basically what Janeway did.
Exactly.

It is interesting, however, that there are so many in the VOY forum who think that I would not only have been justified, but that I actually *should have* killed someone to get a new kidney for my sweetie. That I did not simply proves that I didn't love him as much as Janeway loves Kes and Kes loves Neelix.



I'm really glad that I'll never run into these folks IRL. 'Cause I'm getting to the age where I'm old & expendable...
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Old July 31 2013, 09:13 PM   #257
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

KaraBear wrote: View Post
Seska assumed it was chakotay's baby but she was probably already pregnant with the Kullah's baby when she tried to impregnate herself
Up until that point it had been Chakotay's, the only mention of Kullah was she'd slept with him so he'd think it was his until it was born. It felt like a last second change because someone balked at that idea.

Having looked at the behind the scenes, that's exactly what happened. It was written as Chakotay was the father. Piller left, and they changed it, and quite a lot of things that was planned for part 2.
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Old August 1 2013, 02:12 PM   #258
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
Seska assumed it was chakotay's baby but she was probably already pregnant with the Kullah's baby when she tried to impregnate herself
Up until that point it had been Chakotay's, the only mention of Kullah was she'd slept with him so he'd think it was his until it was born. It felt like a last second change because someone balked at that idea.

Having looked at the behind the scenes, that's exactly what happened. It was written as Chakotay was the father. Piller left, and they changed it, and quite a lot of things that was planned for part 2.
there's nothing in the episdes that shows that it was for sure chakotay's baby
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Old August 1 2013, 05:10 PM   #259
Katie O'Clare
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

So I have a question, we all know that the original Resolutions script was supposed to include a kiss between J/C. I have part of the original script but only up until that kiss. I wanna know what they planned to happen for the rest of the episode until Voyager comes back...does anybody know? Was it any different from what we have actually seen? Was it more intimate?

Also can we talk about Hunters and Workforce yet? Or are we not there yet?? I dont wanna spoil it for those who watch it the first time...
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Old August 4 2013, 01:44 PM   #260
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Katie O'Clare wrote: View Post
So I have a question, we all know that the original Resolutions script was supposed to include a kiss between J/C. I have part of the original script but only up until that kiss. I wanna know what they planned to happen for the rest of the episode until Voyager comes back...does anybody know? Was it any different from what we have actually seen? Was it more intimate?

Also can we talk about Hunters and Workforce yet? Or are we not there yet?? I dont wanna spoil it for those who watch it the first time...
You are a couple of seasons too early for this thread, but nothing's preventing you from starting your own episode specific threads.
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Old August 4 2013, 04:33 PM   #261
NightJim
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Katie O'Clare wrote: View Post
So I have a question, we all know that the original Resolutions script was supposed to include a kiss between J/C. I have part of the original script but only up until that kiss. I wanna know what they planned to happen for the rest of the episode until Voyager comes back...does anybody know? Was it any different from what we have actually seen? Was it more intimate?

Also can we talk about Hunters and Workforce yet? Or are we not there yet?? I dont wanna spoil it for those who watch it the first time...
I think it was left open so the viewer can make up their own mind. But I'd like a short story with Tuvok as Captain, something that came up with those two missing from the ship. Same with one during the two months(?) Tuvix was onboard. It'd be cool to see life on board with crew changes.

It also seems that the Who breaks aren't going to be as all encompassing as I thought. Since I'm watching with a group of people we have to be strict about how many episodes we watch so no one gets ahead (I sort of already have). S:

Flashback

This is one of the episodes I actually started this whole thing for. I'd never seen it, and a flashback to the movie era and Tuvok's place there was an intruiging one. I'd always assumed it came a lot later since I more or less watched Seasons 1-4 when they first aired. Turns out I missed the start of Season 3. I also had no idea it was based during Undiscovered Country. Seems my recent rewatch of the films was well timed, and what's more, I'm going to be reading Captain's Daughter next too.

Anyway, I liked it. It didn't go as in detail as I'd expected, but I've had nearly fifteen years to build up how big an episode it was. Nothing ground shaking, and the whole 'virus' was a bit too sci-fi nonsense excuse to have the flashback. I think I'd have preferred something a bit deeper than that.

Also a nice timely appearance of Kang aka Michael Ansara too.
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Old August 4 2013, 04:44 PM   #262
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

They did a good job with Excelsior's bridge, even though it was a rush job to recreate it in a week.
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Old August 4 2013, 10:17 PM   #263
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Really the weakness of Flashback as opposed to it's anniversary counterpart Trials and Tribbleations is the plot. The virus bit is just weak and it really ends up being a Janeway/Tuvok story with the Excelsior in the backdrop. T&T had the whole crew involved in some aspect of the story. The filling in the scenes during TUC was nice and it was good to see Sulu, Rand and Kang all again, but yeah it doesn't live up to the hype. Though every time I see Valtaine in TUC I can't help but laugh.
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Old August 5 2013, 10:51 PM   #264
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Hey, NightJim. Looks like The Chute is next for you. Can't wait to hear what you think of that
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Old August 6 2013, 10:57 AM   #265
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Oh now I'm worried.
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Old August 6 2013, 03:30 PM   #266
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

You will be. -sinister voice- You.... will... be...
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Old August 6 2013, 03:43 PM   #267
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I thought The Chute was a good episode
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Old August 6 2013, 07:42 PM   #268
Katie O'Clare
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I did not...lol its on my list of voyagers worst episodes
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Old August 10 2013, 03:29 PM   #269
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

well the Chute.

First of all, I'm not sure I saw a lot of the start of Season 3 when it was first on, because this is the second episode in a row that I have absolutely no memory of.

Not that I think The Chute would stick in one's mind anyway. It feels like a retread of about 3 other episodes from Voyager's first two seasons. Locking the Voyager crew up on some crazy misunderstanding is becoming a bit of a tried trope.

Also the complete lack of exploring what is wrong with the alien culture. It's looked at sideways and never addressed, which just seems lazy. I did like Janeway's refusal to speak to the two 'terrorists' on first capture, but after the Ambassador says they won't release Paris and Kim anyway I expected a conversation.

It feels like a very rushed episode to meets the number of shows they have to make.
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Old August 18 2013, 02:10 PM   #270
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

The Swarm

God Damn Picardo is good, Voyager really won't let you forget that. Not only does he do a fantastic job of playing the EMH losing his mind but a second Diagnostic program that is a bit like the original Doctor taken to Nth degree. Brilliant.

Which I'm not so sure of for this week's aliens. If this is an introduction to a ongoing bad guy it's good, but I get the feeling this is a one time appearance, in which case they're massively undersold. The most handwavey I can get with it, is that Voyager's not going to stick around and figure out the problem when they're trying to get home. Which at least stands with Janeway's 'screw the regs, we're going through' It was rather nice for her to make that decision rather than not adding over a year to the journey.

It's also the start of the Torres/Paris pairing, maybe. Maybe it's a hind sight thing, or maybe it is actually them preparing us for what's coming. What was certainly a hindsight thing was back in Faces, I think there was a little of the chemistry there, or at least one of them being interested/caring for the other.

Oh, and I really liked the aliens shooting Paris during the whole "I'm Lt Tom Paris of the Federation Starship Voyager." Nice to get someone who can't be bothered listening to it.


False Profits
Hey, TNG tie in! and I remember this episode from the original airing. Been awhile since I had one of them.

And WOW Janeway actually sends Chakotay to lead an Away Mission, she obviously must have thought it was a boring one, despite the mystery of the replicator. Bizarrely, he has his sacred tattoo removed without so much of a mention, not just once either, but twice. Seems a little at odds with what we know of him.

Another good Janeway moment when Tuvok questions getting involved with the Ferengi. She seems to have started accepting that following Starfleet Regs this far from Federation space might not be in the best interest of the crew.

Fun little episode and the first missed shortcut home. I remember these way more frequent then they were. Been a while since we had a shuttle wreck as well.
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