RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,348
Posts: 5,502,598
Members: 25,120
Currently online: 536
Newest member: Gaytrekgeek

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11

Frakes: Sign Me Up!
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 24 2013, 01:58 PM   #241
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Tuvix was a creep who took liberties with the Captain and Kes. I wouldn't say he was the best of anything.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24 2013, 02:33 PM   #242
NightJim
Commander
 
NightJim's Avatar
 
Location: Scunthorpe, UK
View NightJim's Twitter Profile
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

The Doctor also hints at it when he demands Janeway release Tuvix from sickbay. Basically he really was a full-on amalgamation, and it large does the annoying side of things came out, but because Tuvok and Neelix are such extremes they balanced out in the short term.
NightJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24 2013, 02:38 PM   #243
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

KaraBear wrote: View Post
Katie O'Clare wrote: View Post
I think Tuvok is the perfect person to talk to and take advice from when your emotions are a mess and you need a rock to hold onto. He is that rock..and I think thats what Janeway sees and appreciates. And like you guys said, since he is able to look at the situation objectively he can offer some other perspectives that Janeway couldn't/wouldn't see.

Btw, Tuvix is one of my favourite episodes...I think its astonishing that they wrote a character and found an actor to portray someone so likable in such an incredibly short time. Despite myself I found myself rooting for Tuvix in the end. I really was sad to see him go. He was such a unique character it would have been interesting to see him develop and adapt further.
I always wondered something about Tuvix. He picked up the best qualites of both Tuvok and Neelix and was a sweetheart. But what if he picked up the worst from each. What if Tuvix had been a complete jerk? Would people have had any hesitation about getting rid of him? Would we still be discussing whether or not it was murder? Or would everyone have been happy to see him go and not given it another thought?
That's the fundamental error in this process: basing the decision on the likability of Tuvix. Janeway did that, or else Kes's tearful plea for wanting Neelix back wouldn't have been what pushed her over the edge in making a decision. It doesn't matter if he was a first class jerk or not. That doesn't invalidate his right to live. That would be like me saying since I don't like you, I have the right to harvest your organs to save two people I like more. That's basically what Janeway did.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24 2013, 06:45 PM   #244
NightJim
Commander
 
NightJim's Avatar
 
Location: Scunthorpe, UK
View NightJim's Twitter Profile
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Except there's the inciting incident, which in your example is the accidental ripping of the two people's organs out and creating a person from them. The Medical staff all say it can't be reversed, and just as everyone comes to accept this new person they figure out "oh wait we can undo it"
NightJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25 2013, 03:39 PM   #245
Katie O'Clare
Lieutenant
 
Katie O'Clare's Avatar
 
Location: Germany
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

KaraBear wrote: View Post
Katie O'Clare wrote: View Post
I think Tuvok is the perfect person to talk to and take advice from when your emotions are a mess and you need a rock to hold onto. He is that rock..and I think thats what Janeway sees and appreciates. And like you guys said, since he is able to look at the situation objectively he can offer some other perspectives that Janeway couldn't/wouldn't see.

Btw, Tuvix is one of my favourite episodes...I think its astonishing that they wrote a character and found an actor to portray someone so likable in such an incredibly short time. Despite myself I found myself rooting for Tuvix in the end. I really was sad to see him go. He was such a unique character it would have been interesting to see him develop and adapt further.
I always wondered something about Tuvix. He picked up the best qualites of both Tuvok and Neelix and was a sweetheart. But what if he picked up the worst from each. What if Tuvix had been a complete jerk? Would people have had any hesitation about getting rid of him? Would we still be discussing whether or not it was murder? Or would everyone have been happy to see him go and not given it another thought?
Hmm good thinking. I dont know. Initially, and I know this is SOOOOO wrong but please dont judge me, I would say that I wouldnt have been sad to see him go...but I think that is just natural. Who wants to watch a character one genuinely dislikes...I know I dont...but that would NEVER be a reason to murder someone...just because he has some bad qualities and character traits...but that is a very delicate subject....
Katie O'Clare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25 2013, 05:00 PM   #246
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post
Except there's the inciting incident, which in your example is the accidental ripping of the two people's organs out and creating a person from them. The Medical staff all say it can't be reversed, and just as everyone comes to accept this new person they figure out "oh wait we can undo it"
You can't morally say it's acceptable to kill someone against their will to save one life, two lives or a hundred. No person should be able to be able to decide this. Had Tuvix volunteered for it that would be different, but he didn't. You can call him a coward if you want, but last I checked that's not a capital crime.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25 2013, 10:20 PM   #247
NightJim
Commander
 
NightJim's Avatar
 
Location: Scunthorpe, UK
View NightJim's Twitter Profile
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I can say it's the sort of decision that has to be made be a military commander, it may be a bit unusual outside of combat but that's exactly what the decision was.

Did Janeway commit murder? Yes, the show doesn't even hide from that. Is she within her rights to make that decision as Captain of the vessel? Yes.
NightJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2013, 01:21 AM   #248
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

No.

Kodos the Execution was a decent human being that made a silly decision 20 years before TOS. The colony he was governing had got it's crops ass ended by a plague. They ran out of food, and everyone would die months before the relief ships showed up with humanitarian aid. Kodos took they only reasonable course of action available to him... Calling for the state approved and legally sanctioned euthanasia of 4000 hearthy federation Citizens so that the remainder of the neighbourhood could plod on unremittingly.

They didn't wait for history to find him an ass hole, the present took care of that toot sweet, Kodos was wrong and a criminal and hunted by the law for years, and exactly what Janeway did to Tuvix on a vaster scale so she should have been equally as wrong.

Choosing who to kill by lottery would have been shit.

Randomly bombing or gassing th public would entail too much collateral waste.

Not eating the corpses of the slain would have a ridiculous waste of food.

So why kill the old when they'd taste spoiled?

& Why kill the thin when the fat will feed four times as many people, and thin by definition eat less anyway.

I'm 50/50 on children. Not as much meat, but they are fucking annoying.

You would have to wonder if Tribbles are kept in stasis as emergency famine insurance since their discovery?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2013, 04:04 PM   #249
NightJim
Commander
 
NightJim's Avatar
 
Location: Scunthorpe, UK
View NightJim's Twitter Profile
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Basics Parts 1&2 - probably taking a break now, as some friends and I are going over old Doctor Who for the 50th Anniversary.

Anyway, Part 1 is a a good season ender, Part 2 was just alright. I'm not too sure about the whole on the planet survival stuff. I'd have preferred to see them struggle with day to day rather then conflict with caveman and crazy worm dragons. It all seemed over a bit too quickly as well.

That said, the end of Suder's and Seska's stories were well down. Suder's struggle to kill again was brilliantly done, and I think the episode would have been a lot stronger concentrating on the Kazon, Suder and the Doc. Especially after the revelation of the baby, though following a conversation in another thread I now can't help but wonder what would have been if they hadn't wussed out on the DNA steal.

Edit: Actually, no. Having sat with it for 10 minutes, Seska's story was ok, right up to the end. Her death was cheap. Paris and Suder take her out with a loopback. Why Seska? Something way more dramatic was needed there.

Oh and Tuvok's archery is diabolical.

Last edited by NightJim; July 30 2013 at 04:22 PM. Reason: change of mind
NightJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2013, 01:14 AM   #250
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

They should never have killed Seska. She should have been the Dukat of VOY. She could have shadowed Voyager for years, appearing for varying eps, staying on board "reformed" for a bit and then fucking everyone over again. Maybe cloning 50 Chak babies and leaving them all over the ship like the Easter bunny. Cool stuff like that.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2013, 05:11 AM   #251
JanewayRulz!
Vice Admiral
 
JanewayRulz!'s Avatar
 
Location: North America
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I'd have liked to see PICARD get a fire going on that planet without the Janeway "Tinder".

Poor Kathryn, she's been waiting for Chakotay to look at that way since New Earth... and all he's lusting after is her hair!
__________________
"But life is a battle: may we all be enabled to fight it well!" Charlotte Bronte
JanewayRulz! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2013, 07:48 AM   #252
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I wonder what Data's hair is made of. I remember it gets all scruffy at some point in one of the movies.

And you know, why wasn't Data full of practical stuff like a Swiss army knife? Stranded on a planet with no phasers he should be able to make fire just by turning one of his fingers into a lighter. Fingernail lifts up, flame comes out.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2013, 01:21 PM   #253
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
I'd have liked to see PICARD get a fire going on that planet without the Janeway "Tinder".

Poor Kathryn, she's been waiting for Chakotay to look at that way since New Earth... and all he's lusting after is her hair!
"You're so hot captain, your hair is about to be on fire."

But Picard would've just set fire to Riker's beard. That'd be fun.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2013, 04:58 PM   #254
NightJim
Commander
 
NightJim's Avatar
 
Location: Scunthorpe, UK
View NightJim's Twitter Profile
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

teacake wrote: View Post
I wonder what Data's hair is made of. I remember it gets all scruffy at some point in one of the movies.

And you know, why wasn't Data full of practical stuff like a Swiss army knife? Stranded on a planet with no phasers he should be able to make fire just by turning one of his fingers into a lighter. Fingernail lifts up, flame comes out.
Ha, while hilarious, it might have gone against Soong's attempt at making a realistic human. Then again, the super strength probably didn't help either.

i've also not seen those episodes for 15 years, so any interpretation of what Soong was doing is completely made up.

And that hair thing, that was totally Chakotay trying to pull a move, we've discussed that Janeway shot him down the minute they got back on board. She wasn't having any of it onboard. Probably why he was the most "We can survive" because inside he's thinking "we're not on the ship, maybe I have a chance now"

Seska had so much more potential, and I think that episode did. A lot of what Part 1 set up was completely wasted, baby suddenly changes father, Seska dying just like that. Pfft.

Least Paris and Suder did okay by it.
NightJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2013, 05:26 PM   #255
KaraBear
Captain
 
KaraBear's Avatar
 
Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I wonder what Data's hair is made of. I remember it gets all scruffy at some point in one of the movies.

And you know, why wasn't Data full of practical stuff like a Swiss army knife? Stranded on a planet with no phasers he should be able to make fire just by turning one of his fingers into a lighter. Fingernail lifts up, flame comes out.
Ha, while hilarious, it might have gone against Soong's attempt at making a realistic human. Then again, the super strength probably didn't help either.

i've also not seen those episodes for 15 years, so any interpretation of what Soong was doing is completely made up.

And that hair thing, that was totally Chakotay trying to pull a move, we've discussed that Janeway shot him down the minute they got back on board. She wasn't having any of it onboard. Probably why he was the most "We can survive" because inside he's thinking "we're not on the ship, maybe I have a chance now"

Seska had so much more potential, and I think that episode did. A lot of what Part 1 set up was completely wasted, baby suddenly changes father, Seska dying just like that. Pfft.

Least Paris and Suder did okay by it.
what do you mean baby suddenly changes father?

Seska assumed it was chakotay's baby but she was probably already pregnant with the Kullah's baby when she tried to impregnate herself
KaraBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:35 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.