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Old July 30 2013, 03:47 PM   #16
SantaSpock
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

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Seems unlikely, given the production team broke out in hives at the mere mention of the original series. It took lengthy discussion before a passing reference to Spock was allowed into the script for 'Sarek'.
I'm pretty sure the idea was pitched as a sequel to A Private Little War. Also, not sure I get the "hives" comment. They may have acted that way but they still mined TOS for elements pretty regularly and many of the season one episodes were remixes of TOS episodes.
I heard they were supposed to act if it didn't exist. Sure they could copy it but they were never to mention the characters. It was only later in the series when TNG was a success and certain people had left that they could relax and acknowledge it reluctantly.
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Old July 30 2013, 04:09 PM   #17
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I heard they were supposed to act if it didn't exist.
They sure didn't do a very good job of it.
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Old July 30 2013, 10:16 PM   #18
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I heard they were supposed to act if it didn't exist. Sure they could copy it but they were never to mention the characters. It was only later in the series when TNG was a success and certain people had left that they could relax and acknowledge it reluctantly.
The prohibition on connections to TOS did not begin in the first season of TNG. The first season contains numerous references.

For example, McCoy himself appears in the pilot episode. And in The Naked Now, they specifically reference the original TOS Enterprise and Captain Kirk by name.

I believe it was Rick Berman who had the issue with referencing TOS once he became head honcho around seasons two and three. Ron Moore says it was Berman he struggled with to get to mention Spock in Sarek. But then Berman loosened up on that later on, allowing references in during later seasons, not to mention appearances by Spock and Scotty.
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Old July 30 2013, 10:33 PM   #19
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Even if they had conceived the story as a possible offer for Shatner, he might not have been ready for Kirk to die at that time, especially in a television episode. So if it had been Kirk, he might have survived.
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Old July 31 2013, 01:07 AM   #20
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Melakon wrote: View Post
Even if they had conceived the story as a possible offer for Shatner, he might not have been ready for Kirk to die at that time, especially in a television episode. So if it had been Kirk, he might have survived.
Yah, the ego would have gotten in the way.
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Old July 31 2013, 01:23 AM   #21
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Well, the revised final draft was written a year after Star Trek IV came out, so the TOS cast was still coasting on that, and Shatner's contract gave him the right to direct the next film. So that could come into play as well.

Memory Alpha seems to make no mention of a Shatner or "Private Little War" connection, so we all may be suffering communal influence from all those encyclopedias and episode guides and technical manuals we're always buying.
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Old July 31 2013, 01:33 AM   #22
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

Melakon wrote: View Post
Well, the revised final draft was written a year after Star Trek IV came out, so the TOS cast was still coasting on that, and Shatner's contract gave him the right to direct the next film. So that could come into play as well.

Memory Alpha seems to make no mention of a Shatner or "Private Little War" connection, so we all may be suffering communal influence from all those encyclopedias and episode guides and technical manuals we're always buying.
You could very well be right. I just looked up the episode in the TNG Compendium and don't see any mention of it.
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Old July 31 2013, 02:09 AM   #23
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

The logic of the story's premise works better with a new character than it would have with Kirk. With a new character you can make him de-age to his 20s no problem by casting an actor in his 20s start off in horrible old age make up and be in no make up by the end of the episode. Had it been Kirk played by Shatner, he'd only be able to de-age to his 50s, and while rapidly de-aging from 80 or 90 to 50 could still leave the same result, there's greater impact with 90 to 20.
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Old July 31 2013, 02:22 AM   #24
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
The logic of the story's premise works better with a new character than it would have with Kirk. With a new character you can make him de-age to his 20s no problem by casting an actor in his 20s start off in horrible old age make up and be in no make up by the end of the episode. Had it been Kirk played by Shatner, he'd only be able to de-age to his 50s, and while rapidly de-aging from 80 or 90 to 50 could still leave the same result, there's greater impact with 90 to 20.
Well, Kirk would've been close or past 130 years old in 2364.
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Old July 31 2013, 02:52 AM   #25
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

True enough, but I still think the episode works better dramatically with someone in their 20s (or rather 30, the actor's actual age when the episode was filmed) trying to convince someone from his past he is the same person, even though he looks either younger or as though he hasn't aged at all. If it had been Kirk and Tyree (assuming it really was a sequel to A Private Little War) than even in his 50s Kirk would still look older than Tyree would remember him as and therefore would have less of an impact.
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Old July 31 2013, 03:51 AM   #26
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Tomalak wrote: View Post
Seems unlikely, given the production team broke out in hives at the mere mention of the original series. It took lengthy discussion before a passing reference to Spock was allowed into the script for 'Sarek'.
I'm pretty sure the idea was pitched as a sequel to A Private Little War. Also, not sure I get the "hives" comment. They may have acted that way but they still mined TOS for elements pretty regularly and many of the season one episodes were remixes of TOS episodes.
I heard they were supposed to act if it didn't exist. Sure they could copy it but they were never to mention the characters. It was only later in the series when TNG was a success and certain people had left that they could relax and acknowledge it reluctantly.
As someone else said, McCoy was in Encounter at Farpoint, and The Naked Now is a remake/sequel to The Naked Time, in which the events of that episode and the Constitution Class Enterprise itself are specifically mentioned. I don't see how this "policy" to deny the existence of TOS could have really existed, in light of these references being made in the very first season.

Of course, later on we have Relics, which is pretty much a love letter to TOS, with too many references and callbacks to list here.
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Old July 31 2013, 05:05 AM   #27
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

I guess it might go something like this





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Old July 31 2013, 01:58 PM   #28
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

^^In that second picture I did a double take thinking that was Riker.
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Old July 31 2013, 09:33 PM   #29
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

CoveTom wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I heard they were supposed to act if it didn't exist. Sure they could copy it but they were never to mention the characters. It was only later in the series when TNG was a success and certain people had left that they could relax and acknowledge it reluctantly.
The prohibition on connections to TOS did not begin in the first season of TNG. The first season contains numerous references.

For example, McCoy himself appears in the pilot episode. And in The Naked Now, they specifically reference the original TOS Enterprise and Captain Kirk by name.
There were other episodes planned that would have tied it into the original show. Besides TSaS there was a two parter planned for the first season involving Spock and the Guardian of Forever. The season finale The Neutral Zone was to feature Harry Mudd but was rewritten after Roger Carmel died. Apparently there was even a Khan episode planned where Picard and crew battle him in a holodeck simulation.

Odd as it may seem I'm more disappointed at losing the Mudd episode than I am Spock and Khan.
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Old July 31 2013, 10:43 PM   #30
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Re: TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

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Odd as it may seem I'm more disappointed at losing the Mudd episode than I am Spock and Khan.
Same here.

I remember reading about the proposed Mudd episode in the Star Trek letter column from DC Comics first run.
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