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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 29 2013, 05:40 PM   #31
Grant
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

22 Stars wrote: View Post
Just had to chime in, as the poster-child for this TWOK Blue hue from a while back:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=118964

Glad I'm not the only one being annoyed by it

Thanks for finding that link---really shows the sickening job they did with the Blu-ray color.

Here is the vintage 1983 calendar that was released/sold in 1982. The nebula is supposed to be throwing the brown tinge all over Regula and the Ent in the shots where ent is in the vicinity of Regula.

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Wrat.../dp/B0035XSC6I
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Old July 29 2013, 05:50 PM   #32
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
Yet another sign that Paramount could give a rats arse about the prime-universe Trek movies, they just quickly threw the same old transfers they had around for HD cable/satellite movie channels on to the Blu-ray release.
I don't know, but TMP looks a lot better on BluRay than it did on HDTV.
What I think they are saying is that they used the same print transfer for the Blu-ray as the HDTV streaming--NOT that they didn't improve/restore it.

In other words they used the same transfer--although they may have cleaned it up better for the Blu-ray release.

What the other folks are saying, I think, is why didn't they go to the orginal camera negatives and make an all-new 4k master?

So yes, the Blu-ray can look better than the HD streaming version without being the best quality it could be.
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Old July 30 2013, 01:53 AM   #33
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

Grant wrote: View Post
Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
Yet another sign that Paramount could give a rats arse about the prime-universe Trek movies, they just quickly threw the same old transfers they had around for HD cable/satellite movie channels on to the Blu-ray release.
I don't know, but TMP looks a lot better on BluRay than it did on HDTV.
What I think they are saying is that they used the same print transfer for the Blu-ray as the HDTV streaming--NOT that they didn't improve/restore it.

In other words they used the same transfer--although they may have cleaned it up better for the Blu-ray release.
This is essentially correct. Garbage in - Garbage out as they say. The source of all the HD versions out there seem to be the same rather mediocre HD scans done circa 2001.

Grant wrote: View Post
What the other folks are saying, I think, is why didn't they go to the orginal camera negatives and make an all-new 4k master?
Yep. I think we'd all love a proper 4k scan of all the movies and real care shown for the dirt and scratch repair, not just a quick and dirty blur (digital noise reduction) across the entire frame.

Grant wrote: View Post
So yes, the Blu-ray can look better than the HD streaming version without being the best quality it could be.
It's funny you bring that up. There's a guy over at AVS Forum (a big A/V enthusiast forum if you've never heard of it) that does streaming versions versus DVD versus Blu-ray disc comparisons and he did TWOK.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1474847/st...-vs-dvd-vs-vhs
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Old July 30 2013, 04:35 AM   #34
Grant
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
Grant wrote: View Post
Oso Blanco wrote: View Post

I don't know, but TMP looks a lot better on BluRay than it did on HDTV.
What I think they are saying is that they used the same print transfer for the Blu-ray as the HDTV streaming--NOT that they didn't improve/restore it.

In other words they used the same transfer--although they may have cleaned it up better for the Blu-ray release.
This is essentially correct. Garbage in - Garbage out as they say. The source of all the HD versions out there seem to be the same rather mediocre HD scans done circa 2001.

Grant wrote: View Post
What the other folks are saying, I think, is why didn't they go to the orginal camera negatives and make an all-new 4k master?
Yep. I think we'd all love a proper 4k scan of all the movies and real care shown for the dirt and scratch repair, not just a quick and dirty blur (digital noise reduction) across the entire frame.

Grant wrote: View Post
So yes, the Blu-ray can look better than the HD streaming version without being the best quality it could be.
It's funny you bring that up. There's a guy over at AVS Forum (a big A/V enthusiast forum if you've never heard of it) that does streaming versions versus DVD versus Blu-ray disc comparisons and he did TWOK.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1474847/st...-vs-dvd-vs-vhs

That's a very cool link, but how did he watch 7 or 8 versions of TWOK and not notice/mention the cyan overload of the Blu-ray?

I mean we knew the Bluray was gonna win that comparison test.
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Old July 30 2013, 04:40 AM   #35
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

He does mention it, very briefly.
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Old July 30 2013, 05:23 PM   #36
Grant
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

Harvey wrote: View Post
He does mention it, very briefly.
Thanks, I'll re-read it.

LOL, yep he mentions the unrestored version as 'reddish looking'---which ironically is actually what the movie is supposed to look like before they turned the blue/cyan up to '11' on the restoration.

One of the reasons that they tend to turn down the red and turn up the cyan for Blu-ray is that all the previous video formats VHS, Laserdisc and DVD all had problems with the red 'blooming' and looking unnatural.

In fact, Nick Meyer in his commentary for the 2-disc set comments on this problem occuring 'on video' but 'not on film'.

Therefore ever since Blu-ray came out they have tended to try to fix the problem of the past on a format where it isn't really a factor anymore, by turning down the red and turning up the cyan.

Oh well, hopefully next time they'll get it right or a least closer to what it should be.

Last edited by Grant; July 30 2013 at 05:40 PM.
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Old July 31 2013, 06:48 AM   #37
SpHeRe31459
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

Grant wrote: View Post
Therefore ever since Blu-ray came out they have tended to try to fix the problem of the past on a format where it isn't really a factor anymore, by turning down the red and turning up the cyan.

Oh well, hopefully next time they'll get it right or a least closer to what it should be.
Actually, ever since Blu-ray came out, most films have been pushed to be restored by people that care, which includes proper color timing.

Why the cyan thing has become popular doesn't really have anything specifically to do with home video. It's fad in Hollywood, blockbusters in theaters right now have it. It has to do with skin tones and complementary colors.
I posted this link on page 1, but I guess you missed it:
http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/20...ease-stop.html

Apparently just about everyone in Hollywood is now drinking the teal/orange Kool Aide.
Because of this they are retroactively applying it to some re-releases of movies (for example: James Cameron signed off on doing it to Aliens when it was released on Blu-ray), while really most are treated with respect and restored properly.

Last edited by SpHeRe31459; July 31 2013 at 07:06 AM.
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Old July 31 2013, 07:03 PM   #38
Grant
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
Grant wrote: View Post
Therefore ever since Blu-ray came out they have tended to try to fix the problem of the past on a format where it isn't really a factor anymore, by turning down the red and turning up the cyan.

Oh well, hopefully next time they'll get it right or a least closer to what it should be.
Actually, ever since Blu-ray came out, most films have been pushed to be restored by people that care, which includes proper color timing.

Why the cyan thing has become popular doesn't really have anything specifically to do with home video. It's fad in Hollywood, blockbusters in theaters right now have it. It has to do with skin tones and complementary colors.
I posted this link on page 1, but I guess you missed it:
http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/20...ease-stop.html

Apparently just about everyone in Hollywood is now drinking the teal/orange Kool Aide.
Because of this they are retroactively applying it to some re-releases of movies (for example: James Cameron signed off on doing it to Aliens when it was released on Blu-ray), while really most are treated with respect and restored properly.

You say most are restored properly, but I see forums everywhere complaining about the cyan 'problem'.

So while most may be restored properly--many it seems are not.

In any case we got ripped in the case of TWOK.

I think you may have misunderstood me. I meant, in the case of movies having too much cyan--some techs think they are 'fixing' a problem by turning up the teal--whereas with Blu-ray they could simply leave it as it was meant to be and it would look good.

That was a knock of VHS epecially that the reds bled and didn't look right--which Meyer commented on.

So for some movies, unfortunately they are turning down the red and up the cyan for no good reason--either because it's a fad or because they mistakenly think it supposed to be that way.

In the case of TWOK--they turned Regula which the film-makers wanted to NOT look like earth's moon---into something on the Blu-ray that looks exactly like earths moon in color and then add in the craters..........

Last edited by Grant; August 1 2013 at 04:48 PM.
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Old July 5 2014, 03:54 AM   #39
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

Next weekend a local cinema is showing TWOK again. I asked what version and the ditzy teenage girl told me the "HD studio" version.

Am I going to be in for a sappy cyan-covered mess when I see it in the theater?
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Old July 5 2014, 05:17 PM   #40
Grant
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Next weekend a local cinema is showing TWOK again. I asked what version and the ditzy teenage girl told me the "HD studio" version.

Am I going to be in for a sappy cyan-covered mess when I see it in the theater?
Well let us know.

Check for the color and if the print is faded etc.

And thanks!
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Old July 5 2014, 05:28 PM   #41
Timby
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Next weekend a local cinema is showing TWOK again. I asked what version and the ditzy teenage girl told me the "HD studio" version.

Am I going to be in for a sappy cyan-covered mess when I see it in the theater?
Most likely; with the advent of digital cinema, it's not like your theater is going to be receiving a film reel, but rather a digital file that they download and show.
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Old July 6 2014, 07:09 AM   #42
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

If it's blue, throw your empty soft drink cup at the screen and depart.
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Old July 6 2014, 03:08 PM   #43
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

I wouldn't knock those who've had the chance to see Wrath of Khan on film. As someone who has the opportunity to see it, I too can attest that the coloring on the Blu-ray matches what I saw on screen. I could tell just by the first shot of the film on the Enterprise bridge. Sorry I can't produce concrete evidence, since they don't allow you to photograph or take video of the screen. Some video transfers can't always be trusted and you can't judge a film squarely off of your experience with previous versions. I've seen a video version of Star Trek: The Motion Picture that was unbearably dark that I could barely see anything, but that's not the case with the Blu-ray edition. Another example is how I recently seen a film print of The Terminator and the color from it matched the newly remastered edition than the first Blu-ray edition.
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Old July 6 2014, 05:32 PM   #44
Grant
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

And every still photo and every bit of publicity material from 1982 till now was wrong? No.

In the Blu-ray the white bridge seats have a blue tinge. They designed the seats to be white with a blue tinge? No.
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Old July 6 2014, 05:54 PM   #45
Lance
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Re: Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

Kamdan wrote: View Post
I wouldn't knock those who've had the chance to see Wrath of Khan on film. As someone who has the opportunity to see it, I too can attest that the coloring on the Blu-ray matches what I saw on screen. I could tell just by the first shot of the film on the Enterprise bridge. Sorry I can't produce concrete evidence, since they don't allow you to photograph or take video of the screen. Some video transfers can't always be trusted and you can't judge a film squarely off of your experience with previous versions. I've seen a video version of Star Trek: The Motion Picture that was unbearably dark that I could barely see anything, but that's not the case with the Blu-ray edition. Another example is how I recently seen a film print of The Terminator and the color from it matched the newly remastered edition than the first Blu-ray edition.
Do you know that The Terminator was actually being shown from a film print? Because like has been said, modern cinemas are kitted out with digital projection, and that involves downloading an file (no doubt sourced from Blu Ray or other high definition equivalent) and it's all done on computers. Chances are if it was a recent screening of The Terminator, then it basically was the Blu Ray.

If you're viewing of TWOK was likewise a recent-ish one, then chances are there's a very good reason why it matches the Blu-Ray in terms of coloring...

Almost no theaters show film prints anymore. I should know, I was a projectionist for nine years until the new technology got good enough for everything to be changed over. If you're watching any movie in a theater now, trust me, you're not seeing a film print.
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