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Old July 26 2013, 07:24 AM   #646
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Yeah, I'm a fan of keeping the X-Men separate. Combining universes muddies the messages of the X-Men universe rather than strengthens either. Sure it's nice to see superheroes with each other, but X-Men is deeper than just that and combining them severely weakens their stories.
True, but on the other hand I think Whedon did a great job with bringing in some other Marvel characters during his X-Men run, so I think his team could make it work in reverse for something like SHIELD. Different and a newer thing than in the X-films obviously, but still there. Or of course there's always the "metahuman" lingo.

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(The second animated series, X-Men Evolution, kept mutants secret from the world until a bit over halfway through its run, and it didn't really get interesting until they were outed and the show could start dealing with the themes of intolerance and persecution.)
It didn't get really good until the Sentinel attack I agree, but I'd say it got a lot more interesting right in the second season when they started de-emphasizing the Brotherhood as a threat. And the Christmas episode with Angel is still one of the best, I think.
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Old July 26 2013, 02:22 PM   #647
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

^True, the second season was an improvement over the languidly-paced first, but I still found XME overall to be the weakest of the three X-Men shows in its writing -- which is a shame, since it was by far the best-animated of the three, and one of the most gorgeously animated TV series I've ever seen.
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Old July 26 2013, 03:03 PM   #648
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Christopher wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
I imagine there are other SHIELD teams as well as rival agencies. Hydra, perhaps, could make for a good recurring villain.
Given that IM3 introduced A.I.M., I'm hoping it will be a recurring presence in future productions and eventually have its ties to HYDRA revealed. Although that would probably best be done in Cap 3 as a way of bringing the Red Skull back.
Well, no mention of Hydra in The Wolverine. Not that that was hard to predict or anything, but I had wondered if it was going to be one of those elements that could be referenced by either franchise.
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Old July 27 2013, 08:23 AM   #649
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Joss Whedon and Mark Webb both weigh in on the possibility of a shared studio Marvel Cinematic Universe here.

Webb sees the same problems in integrating the mutant universe that FOX created with the other franchises that some here have described, but Whedon seems to think that he could make it work.
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Old July 27 2013, 12:54 PM   #650
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Well, I certainly think it's possible to add X-Men characters to an Avengers (or other Marvel) movie. I just don't think you can add the entire X-Men universe to it and I think adding other Marvel characters to the X-Men universe would weaken that universe. Whedon is adding two X-Men characters to this movie without a problem and he would likely do the same were he to add Wolverine or some other character like that. But it certainly wouldn't be beneficial to add a whole subplot about mutant rights and discrimination to an Avengers movie. In that sense, Mark Webb is correct.
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Old July 27 2013, 05:45 PM   #651
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

For the films, I definitely agree. But as a subplot in a long-running TV series? I could see that be something running through SHIELD, with our main characters maybe taking different stances.

Christopher wrote: View Post
^True, the second season was an improvement over the languidly-paced first, but I still found XME overall to be the weakest of the three X-Men shows in its writing -- which is a shame, since it was by far the best-animated of the three, and one of the most gorgeously animated TV series I've ever seen.
Absolutely agreed about the animation. I think overall I like the character selection better too - Kitty and Kurt especially, plus Cable has always bored me - and maybe characterization (with allowance that they're at radically different stages for most of them). Certainly I've come to prefer the Evo take on Rogue; super-flying-brick Rogue from TAS is a lot of fun (though too many "Sugahs") and it's nice to have a female character as the physical heavy-hitter, but Evo's Rogue was just more interesting. The fact that it was a pretty clean-slate sort of adaptation worked in its favor too; I don't know it ever got as strong as the (relatively) straight adaptation of The Phoenix Saga, but it felt a lot more straightforward too. Though I really need to rewatch X-Men:TAS one of these days because while it was one of the pillars of my childhood with Batman and Spider-Man, it's been a very long time.

I have nothing but disinterest towards WatXM just from the title; watched an episode or two late-night once, but overall blurgh. Wolverine in TAS - fun character, vital but didn't take over the show. Wolverine in Evo - nice that he wasn't the focus, but again a very important part. WatXM? Ugh....
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Old July 27 2013, 06:01 PM   #652
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

^I found WatXM to be better than I remembered, though it was sometimes more a Wolverine series than an X-Men series (while maintaining a pretty good balance of both overall). Also, I'd say Steve Blum is the second-best of the three Wolverine portrayers (I think Scott McNeill is a very good voice actor, but his Wolverine on XME was a little too mellow and relaxed, which is surprising since I know he's capable of playing really fierce and angry characters like Dinobot on Transformers: Beast Wars), though the original series's Cathal J. Dodd will always be the definitive Wolverine for me.

I think WatXM had the best Nightcrawler and a better Kitty than XME (perhaps less distinctive, but less annoying too). But it had the weakest Xavier actor.
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Old July 27 2013, 07:18 PM   #653
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Well, I think Evo's Wolverine was mean to be more mellow and relaxed - the older gruff warrior, but mostly over (or never having?) the rage which is normally associated with him; I think McNeill went the way they wanted him too, just as Dinobot was meant to be truly ferocious and angry. Steve Blum plays a great angry berserker type though I agree - his Grunt from the Mass Effect series is a real treat. Agreed about Cathal Dodd - definitive.

Evo's Kitty started out somewhat annoying, but when they toned down the valley girl stereotypes she became a lot better I felt like.
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Old July 28 2013, 04:41 AM   #654
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

As for the debate about adding characters owned by other studios to the MCU, I do agree the mutants could problem, but I really don't see where Spider-Man would be a problem at all. As far as I know, there really isn't anything in his story that couldn't be squeezed into the MCU.
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Old July 28 2013, 03:14 PM   #655
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

^All the characters are owned by Marvel. Other studios just hold licenses to make movies about them. That's more like leasing than owning.

As I've said, I'd like to see Sony and Marvel Studios find a way to at least loosely integrate the Garfield Spidey films with the MCU. It's a new enough continuity that it would be easy enough to keep them compatible. I do think the X-Men films and the whole mutant continuity work better as a separate entity, but I agree, Spidey would fit in just fine. I doubt we'll ever see Andrew Garfield teaming up with Downey, Hemsworth, and Evans in an Avengers movie, but there could be some subtle cross-references and an effort to keep the series broadly compatible. Say, have a lot of construction going on in the background of ASM2 because Manhattan's being rebuilt from the Battle of New York.

Of course, that wouldn't necessarily benefit Agents of SHIELD, since they probably wouldn't get to feature any Spidey characters or continuity that hadn't already been introduced in the movies, so as not to restrict the moviemakers' options. And with Spidey movies coming out so infrequently by comparison, there wouldn't be many opportunities to do any kind of tie-in. Heck, that's the whole reason to do a series about a new cast that stands largely apart from the movies -- it's just better from a logistical standpoint if a TV series isn't too closely tied to an ongoing, much more slowly developing film series. So any Avengerverse/Spidey crossover elements would be far more likely to show up on the big screen than on TV.
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Old July 28 2013, 07:28 PM   #656
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

I think the main character I want to see show up in SHIELD is Daredevil and his supporting cast.
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Old July 29 2013, 03:02 AM   #657
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

He would be pretty easy to do on a TV budget too, wouldn't he? From what I've seen it looks like you'd pretty much just need a martial artist who can do parkour, and some effects for his echolocation ability.
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Old July 29 2013, 03:19 AM   #658
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Having...Trial...of the...Incredible...Hulk...flashbacks....
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Old July 29 2013, 04:11 AM   #659
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

^I felt that Trial of the Incredible Hulk was a pretty good Daredevil pilot for its day. Purists would've complained about the simpler black costume (but then, religious nuts would've complained about a more accurate one), but I would've liked to see it continue to series.

But these days we'd definitely expect better FX for his radar-sense shots. I've read some of the recent comics run and they're doing some impressive visuals for that.

Who are DD's main antagonists? Kingpin, Bullseye... who else? They seem pretty FX-light characters.
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Old July 29 2013, 04:16 AM   #660
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Kingpin's rights are owned by SONY right now since he is considered a Spider-Man villain. Not exactly sure how THAT works.
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