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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 27 2013, 09:21 PM   #4561
marksound
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
OK, please explain how killing an enemy who is engaging in an unprovoked act of war is the same as execution.

Just so I can understand.
Nero was an enemy combatant who blew up an entire planet and killed the majority of its population, destroyed a fleet of ships and killed countless Starfleet personnel, attempted to destroy a second planet, kidnapped and tortured a Starfleet Captain, was in the possession of weapons of mass destruction and was battling the Enterprise. He also refused surrender. Killing him was not an execution any more than killing Chang was. Both were enemies who were engaging in unprovoked acts of war
That's what I was saying. I don't see where it's "six of one ... " ?

Where I come from, "six of one, half a dozen of the other" means "same difference." In other words, the implication was that Chang and Nero were summarily executed. That's not how I see it. They were enemy combatants who died engaging in war against Starfleet and the Federation.

If we agree, fine. If not, fine. I was just putting it out there.
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Old July 27 2013, 09:26 PM   #4562
Santa Kang
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
OK, please explain how killing an enemy who is engaging in an unprovoked act of war is the same as execution.

Just so I can understand.
Nero was an enemy combatant who blew up an entire planet and killed the majority of its population, destroyed a fleet of ships and killed countless Starfleet personnel, attempted to destroy a second planet, kidnapped and tortured a Starfleet Captain, was in the possession of weapons of mass destruction and was battling the Enterprise. He also refused surrender. Killing him was not an execution any more than killing Chang was. Both were enemies who were engaging in unprovoked acts of war
That's what I was saying. I don't see where it's "six of one ... " ?

Where I come from, "six of one, half a dozen of the other" means "same difference." In other words, the implication was that Chang and Nero were summarily executed. That's not how I see it. They were enemy combatants who died in war. Not the same thing.

If we agree, fine. If not, fine. I was just putting it out there.
My meaning was killing Chang and killing Nero were pretty much the same thing/situation. Not that killing an enemy combatant in battle is execution. My take was you were saying one was a execution and one wasn't.
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Old July 27 2013, 09:33 PM   #4563
marksound
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Nero was an enemy combatant who blew up an entire planet and killed the majority of its population, destroyed a fleet of ships and killed countless Starfleet personnel, attempted to destroy a second planet, kidnapped and tortured a Starfleet Captain, was in the possession of weapons of mass destruction and was battling the Enterprise. He also refused surrender. Killing him was not an execution any more than killing Chang was. Both were enemies who were engaging in unprovoked acts of war
That's what I was saying. I don't see where it's "six of one ... " ?

Where I come from, "six of one, half a dozen of the other" means "same difference." In other words, the implication was that Chang and Nero were summarily executed. That's not how I see it. They were enemy combatants who died in war. Not the same thing.

If we agree, fine. If not, fine. I was just putting it out there.
My meaning was killing Chang and killing Nero were pretty much the same thing/situation. Not that killing an enemy combatant in battle is execution. My take was you were saying one was a execution and one wasn't.
Nope. Sorry for the confusion.
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Old July 27 2013, 10:53 PM   #4564
Belz...
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Mage wrote: View Post
This forum would be so much nicer if everyone could just accept that others have a different opinion about wether or not this was a good film.
This forum ? The WORLD would be much nicher if that happened.
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Old July 27 2013, 10:57 PM   #4565
Belz...
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
made the 23rd century way too contemporary
As opposed to miniskirts and hippies in TOS ?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Young, inexperienced people often make poor decisions. Kirk also executed Chang in The Undiscovered Country. After obviously crippling the Bird-of-Prey, he didn't even offer surrender as an option.
Yeah but that was ok because it was real Trek.

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Star Trek Into Darkness conveyed a message just fine.
What message would that be?
Executing people without a trial is bad. Friendship is good. Stupid laws are stupid, etc.
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Old July 28 2013, 01:57 AM   #4566
Ovation
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Star Trek Into Darkness conveyed a message just fine.
What message would that be?
Revenge is not a sound basis for foreign policy.

The execution of someone without a trial is wrong.

Hubris (thinking someone like Khan is controllable and manageable) is usually a recipe for disaster.

There are surely others.
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Old July 28 2013, 05:21 AM   #4567
Set Harth
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Never trust a Vulcan.
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Old July 28 2013, 08:00 AM   #4568
Mage
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post
This forum would be so much nicer if everyone could just accept that others have a different opinion about wether or not this was a good film.
This forum ? The WORLD would be much nicher if that happened.
I figured I'd start small. But seriously, for fans of a show that promotes peace amongst mankind, you'd think they'd be more tolerant towards eachother.
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Old July 28 2013, 08:07 PM   #4569
Opus
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

For some of us, IDIC is more of a journey than a destination.
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Old July 28 2013, 08:47 PM   #4570
Ryan8bit
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

The execution message in STID was a good one. It made up for them executing Nero in the first movie. And yeah, it was an execution. Any kind of battling was over and they were communicating.
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Old July 29 2013, 12:50 AM   #4571
Santa Kang
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
The execution message in STID was a good one. It made up for them executing Nero in the first movie. And yeah, it was an execution. Any kind of battling was over and they were communicating.
Nah. I don't think combat works that way.
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Old July 29 2013, 05:27 AM   #4572
Neumann
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I loved the movie, seen it twice already.

And by the poll, it seems that most of us like this movie a lot!
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Old July 30 2013, 01:41 PM   #4573
Therin of Andor
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
It made up for them executing Nero in the first movie. And yeah, it was an execution. Any kind of battling was over and they were communicating.
But... the massive ship, despite its damage, was drifting into a known time travel phenomenon. A pre-emptive strike during a time of war.
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Old July 30 2013, 07:25 PM   #4574
Hober Mallow
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Mage wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post
This forum would be so much nicer if everyone could just accept that others have a different opinion about wether or not this was a good film.
This forum ? The WORLD would be much nicher if that happened.
I figured I'd start small. But seriously, for fans of a show that promotes peace amongst mankind, you'd think they'd be more tolerant towards eachother.
I'd avoid the Neutral Zone forum if I were you. Just sayin'...
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Old July 30 2013, 08:10 PM   #4575
M'Sharak
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post

This forum ? The WORLD would be much nicher if that happened.
I figured I'd start small. But seriously, for fans of a show that promotes peace amongst mankind, you'd think they'd be more tolerant towards eachother.
I'd avoid the Neutral Zone forum if I were you. Just sayin'...
Eh, it's a bit dull at the moment, but it's not so bad.
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