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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 26 2013, 11:18 AM   #16
starburst
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

Scotty could easily have just returned from Earth himself and when he found out Kirk was beaming up shortly waited... Or when receiving the revised launch orders and that the Admiral would be visiting the ship he left the work in his Engineering teams capable hands to meet his former Captain.

In the grand scheme if Kirk, McCoy and Spock are Star Treks 'big three' then Scotty in my mind is the groups fourth Musketeer.
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Old July 26 2013, 02:11 PM   #17
Christopher
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

The point I tried to get across before is that the office complex is the natural default place you'd expect to find the project supervisor. Granted, Scotty's a hands-on type, but if you're in charge of the project and have to do administrative work, it stands to reason that you'd spend a lot of time in the offices. So as a rule, I don't think Scotty being in the office complex is any stranger than Kirk being on the bridge in a typical TOS episode, or Sisko being in Ops on DS9; it's the home base for the person in charge of the whole operation, so it's not a surprise to find them there.

So there would've been a pretty good chance that Scotty would be there at any given time, and since he would've gotten the revised departure orders just minutes before Kirk arrived and would've had to scramble to respond to those new orders by working up a new strategy, he probably wouldn't have had time to finish up there and go anywhere else before Kirk arrived.
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Old July 26 2013, 05:46 PM   #18
Timo
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

I agree with Christopher that Scotty would probably be most often found at that space station, rather than getting his hands dirty and thus preventing skilled workers from doing their job aboard the ship.

But I think people here are misunderstanding the reason Kirk beamed up to the station. He didn't go up there in order to access the Enterprise - he could always have beamed directly to the ship from a Starfleet transporter platform planetside, or taken a shuttle, or whatnot. No, he beamed up to the station in order to meet Mr. Scott: to complain about the transporters, to annoy the engineer into working faster, to give Scotty a chance to insert a few words of his own.

Flying from the station to the ship was just a sightseeing tour Kirk took because he could easily afford to. He was in no hurry to get to the ship, because he knew better than anybody that the ship wasn't really ready for him quite yet. Scotty would probably have taken that ride in any case, Kirk or no Kirk, as his job would entail sightseeing, uh, overseeing every now and then, and this was a very good choice for a "now"!

Scotty wasn't there to receive Kirk. Scotty wasn't there to carry Kirk to the ship. Rather, Kirk was there to speak with Scotty, in a move that took both parties by surprise (as both would have expected Kirk to beam directly to the ship).

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Old July 26 2013, 06:36 PM   #19
Shat Happens
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

Could be spacedock has the best haggis in the entire sector. Anyone with the bluray can see if there is a napkin somewhere in the scene?
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Old July 26 2013, 06:48 PM   #20
Santa Kang
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
Could be spacedock has the best haggis in the entire sector. Anyone with the bluray can see if there is a napkin somewhere in the scene?
Just zoom in on Scotty's moustache
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Old July 26 2013, 06:51 PM   #21
Jack Frost
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

^

But I think people here are misunderstanding the reason Kirk beamed up to the station. He didn't go up there in order to access the Enterprise - he could always have beamed directly to the ship from a Starfleet transporter platform planetside, or taken a shuttle, or whatnot. No, he beamed up to the station in order to meet Mr. Scott: to complain about the transporters, to annoy the engineer into working faster, to give Scotty a chance to insert a few words of his own.
Ok, I'll buy that.
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Old July 26 2013, 07:44 PM   #22
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

^I don't agree. The first thing he asked Scotty was why the Enterprise's transporters weren't working. Clearly the scriptwriters put that in there to explain to the audience why he didn't just beam to the ship but instead took a long travel pod ride to get to it. So presumably he would've beamed right to the ship if it had been feasible to do so.
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Old July 26 2013, 08:02 PM   #23
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

^The line also sets up the fatal transporter malfunction that occurs shortly after. The problem is, even if this is what the intent of the line is, we are left with the problem that everything we know about transporter technology as of that film suggests that Enterprise's transporters not working shouldn't prevent Kirk from beaming aboard. Starfleet must have a few dozen working transporters at least, and even if for some reason the ground transporters couldn't beam him up to a ship, the transporter room on the Orbital Complex certainly should.

Ultimately what we have here is screenwriter intent going against common sense logic of the situation. We each have to choose our own way to reconcile. I personally prefer to go with what is visually depicted over screenwriter intent in this case. Hence, I like the suggestion that Kirk is really there to meet Scotty.
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Old July 26 2013, 08:06 PM   #24
marksound
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

Christopher wrote: View Post
^I don't agree. The first thing he asked Scotty was why the Enterprise's transporters weren't working. Clearly the scriptwriters put that in there to explain to the audience why he didn't just beam to the ship but instead took a long travel pod ride to get to it. So presumably he would've beamed right to the ship if it had been feasible to do so.
I never questioned why Kirk didn't beam directly to the ship.

As for Mr. Scott being there to pilot the pod, why not? We needed to see the new ship, and who better to show it off than Scotty? Plot be damned, he was the man for the job.

Side note: In December 1979 took my girlfriend to see the movie in the theater. I was mesmerized through the whole thing, just having a great time. That flyaround was the greatest thing I'd ever seen on film, and ... she broke up with me shortly after that.
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Old July 26 2013, 08:30 PM   #25
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

Workbee wrote: View Post
^The line also sets up the fatal transporter malfunction that occurs shortly after. The problem is, even if this is what the intent of the line is, we are left with the problem that everything we know about transporter technology as of that film suggests that Enterprise's transporters not working shouldn't prevent Kirk from beaming aboard. Starfleet must have a few dozen working transporters at least, and even if for some reason the ground transporters couldn't beam him up to a ship, the transporter room on the Orbital Complex certainly should.
Sure, they could beam someone directly to the ship without going through its own transporter, just have them materialize on the bridge or somewhere, but that doesn't mean they would. After all, there's such a thing as naval protocol. You just don't barge onto somebody's ship, even your own (or even a barge, I expect), without getting formal permission to come aboard. Had it been genuinely urgent for Kirk to get to the bridge that minute, then sure, they would've waived protocol and beamed him up there from HQ. But as it was, Kirk opted to follow proper protocol and come aboard at one of the accepted, approved entry points. Failing the transporter room, that meant a docking port.

Another thing to consider is that while TOS did show people beaming to other ships' corridors and bridges in episodes like "The Doomsday Machine" and "The Tholian Web," other episodes often showed that it was preferable to beam from pad to pad when a receiving pad was available. And "Day of the Dove" (I think) presented intraship beaming as hazardous due to the risk of accidentally beaming into a bulkhead or something. Maybe all the metal and plasma conduits and stuff in the way creates interference that can disrupt the transporter beam, so it's better to beam to a pad if one's available. It may have been at least slightly safer for Kirk to beam to the office complex and take a short travel pod ride than it would've been to beam directly aboard without the benefit of an active receiving pad. Particularly with the fluctuating energies and interference patterns of a ship undergoing the final stages of its refit and activation.
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Old July 26 2013, 08:35 PM   #26
Sran
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Sure, they could beam someone directly to the ship without going through its own transporter, just have them materialize on the bridge or somewhere, but that doesn't mean they would. After all, there's such a thing as naval protocol.
Precisely correct. Even under the circumstances Kirk was facing at the time he took back the Enterprise, there was no reason for him to beam directly onto the bridge just so he could get back aboard the ship. Given the state the Enterprise was in at the time he boarded the vessel, there's no way of knowing what he might have beamed into. The bridge was a mess, as was the entire engineering section. Why risk causing a major disruption by emerging right in the middle of a work area?

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Old July 26 2013, 08:59 PM   #27
Timo
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

The first thing he asked Scotty was why the Enterprise's transporters weren't working.
Exactly - and that is why he went to Scotty in the first place, to accuse him of everything that was not going smoothly with the impossible assignment. It's the classic "leadership by arrogance" approach that Kirk practices throughout the movie (even though the writers try to convey that he would be practicing it only for the first half).

So presumably he would've beamed right to the ship if it had been feasible to do so.
...Feasible by means vital for the upcoming mission. When those means were lacking, Kirk needed to get things straightened out, and that meant going to Scotty.

You just don't barge onto somebody's ship
...But you can beam into somebody else's transporter room just fine, even if that somebody isn't running his own machinery right then. Remember how people arrive at Kirk's or Picard's starship? Even when coming from a fellow starship. And how they depart? Even when going to a fellow starship. Nothing should stop Kirk from beaming into the Enterprise transporter room. Or, if the room was in fire or something, then into the mess hall, merely with an advance warning that the mess hall was to be treated as the transporter room in terms of protocol.

There's IMHO no point in treating Kirk's route to the ship as the most efficient one, or the one dictated by regulations, or other such nonsense. Kirk wanted to see his ship, and he would probably have faked a Klingon attack in order to do so; going to curse at Scotty on the space station was simply the most efficient way to accomplish Kirk's true goals, which included a private discussion (and a chance to gloat) with the Chief Engineer, a good long scenic route to the ship, and a moment to work out the anxiety of it all, now exacerbated by the hiccuping transporter machinery.

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Old July 26 2013, 09:39 PM   #28
SeerSGB
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

Sran wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Sure, they could beam someone directly to the ship without going through its own transporter, just have them materialize on the bridge or somewhere, but that doesn't mean they would. After all, there's such a thing as naval protocol.
Precisely correct. Even under the circumstances Kirk was facing at the time he took back the Enterprise, there was no reason for him to beam directly onto the bridge just so he could get back aboard the ship. Given the state the Enterprise was in at the time he boarded the vessel, there's no way of knowing what he might have beamed into. The bridge was a mess, as was the entire engineering section. Why risk causing a major disruption by emerging right in the middle of a work area?

--Sran
Well one would assume that they would have hailed the Enterprise first and let them know Kirk was beaming aboard.
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Old July 26 2013, 09:46 PM   #29
Sran
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

Timo wrote:
Exactly - and that is why he went to Scotty in the first place, to accuse him of everything that was not going smoothly with the impossible assignment. It's the classic "leadership by arrogance" approach that Kirk practices throughout the movie (even though the writers try to convey that he would be practicing it only for the first half).
I'd agree with this except that leadership by arrogance really isn't leadership at all. Kirk took the Enterprise away from Decker merely because he wanted it in spite of not having spent so much as five minutes aboard the vessel (or so we're lead to believe) during it's eighteen months in drydock. He had no idea about the modifications to the ship's engines or its weapons array (phaser intensity improved by using warp power), nor did he understand why the transporter system wasn't functioning properly (hence his accusatory question to Scotty). Decker not only knew these things, but he also had a hand in tracking down and fixing some of the problems in question (he found the faulty sensor associated with the transporter while repairing a computer console in the engine room).

Kirk was fortunate that so many of his senior staff were still serving aboard the ship, or he'd likely have faced a mutiny over his boneheaded decisions. Even so, it's amazing that only Decker (and to lesser extent Scott and McCoy) call him out for his unfamiliarity with the refitted vessel.

And as usual, Spock was left to clean up after him by helping Scotty correct the warp engine imbalance, something of a small miracle given that Spock hadn't been on the ship, either. Then again, Spock did say he'd been studying the Enterprise engine design and was aware of their difficulties. This suggests he'd tracked down the problem himself and was prepared to help Scotty fix whatever was wrong.

Christopher does a nice job following up on some of these issues in Ex Machina by depicting Scotty nursing something of a grudge against Kirk for pushing Decker aside. Their confrontation over Scotty's alleged "perfectionist jag" is one of my favorite parts of the novel. Moreover, the rest of the crew seems split on whether they want to accept the return of the Old Guard (Kirk, Spock, McCoy) after the new group (Decker, Sonak, Chapel) was swept aside so easily because Kirk wanted it that way. Of course, we'll never know what might have happened had Sonak lived and Spock had still tried to board Enterprise while en route to V'Ger. Would Kirk have pushed the younger Vulcan aside in favor of his best friend?

--Sran
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Last edited by Sran; July 26 2013 at 10:04 PM.
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Old July 26 2013, 09:50 PM   #30
BillJ
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Re: What Was Scotty Doing There?

Well, Decker and Sonak ended up being unavailable for duty.

As far as Kirk goes, he was trying to save the planet. So I would expect him to push his people and ship.
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