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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 22 2013, 07:58 AM   #91
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

trevanian wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I'll never understand how anyone can see TOS in Abrams' work. It's so divorced from the source material. I will never, ever get it.

Whatever...
It's weird, but I can't understand why you can't see it, Warped9! Beyond the "feel", the sets, the uniforms, the ships are all clearly polished and shiny versions of TOS.
Would you make the same claim about the SW prequels? That it is just a polished shiny version of the OT?

What I see with the Abrams films is a painful-on-the-eyes and schizophrenic design non-sensibility, with the plain floors of the brewery visible like you'd expect in a zero budget flick, and then the incomprehensible lighting in working environments, where you can't even look at a display without getting practicals shining right in your eyes. Very useful for easy reading in combat conditions, I'm sure.

To me GALAXY QUEST is far closer to TOS in spirit and style than Abrams (and tons better as well.)

And yeah, I'm doing what I said above doesn't need doing, posting a defense in this forum, but since your view is so specific, it really begs for a response in kind.
No need to justify or be in anyway defensive reference your response to my view, specific or not, trevanian. I don't agree, but I truly don't have any problem with it.

This is an internet forum, and it is all about opinion. I'm not necessarily referring to any poster in this thread, but IMHO, there have been occasions when highly disparaging commentary on JJ Trek has been passed for the most tenuous reasons.
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Old July 22 2013, 08:22 AM   #92
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Honestly, what some of the people who don't like the last two movies can't see is that it's possible that their opinions are just that.
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Old July 22 2013, 03:26 PM   #93
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

I have no real problem with the nu-Trek. I enjoyed the first, haven't seen the second, but I'm sure I'll enjoy it. No, my REAL problem is now people are wanting EVERYTHING rebooted. I saw just the other day something on 'fans demand X-Files reboot!'

Good God people! Duchovney and Anderson still look great! They're not Grandpa and Grandma Moses. Besides,....Abrams is a fairly smart guy.

The odds of an X-Files reboot looking like the last POS Night Stalker show are much greater than being remotely as good as the Trek reboot. Besides,....is Duchovney going to go back in time and confront himself (As played by Jesse Eisenberg) at the FBI Academy? Gag.
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Old July 26 2013, 05:47 PM   #94
BennieGamali
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

I love TOS because of the characters. I know why some people hate Bones, but he's awesome IMO. I don't really see himas the "heart" of the group. And being emotional isn't always positive. One reason I love Bones is that he is a bit of a grumpy ass, but he's a good guy in the end. Besides. I always found him and Spock fighting funny. The trio would be lame without Dr.Grumpy and Mr. Logical fighting.
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Old July 26 2013, 06:04 PM   #95
Warped9
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
I have no real problem with the nu-Trek. I enjoyed the first, haven't seen the second, but I'm sure I'll enjoy it. No, my REAL problem is now people are wanting EVERYTHING rebooted. I saw just the other day something on 'fans demand X-Files reboot!'

Good God people! Duchovney and Anderson still look great! They're not Grandpa and Grandma Moses. Besides,....Abrams is a fairly smart guy.

The odds of an X-Files reboot looking like the last POS Night Stalker show are much greater than being remotely as good as the Trek reboot. Besides,....is Duchovney going to go back in time and confront himself (As played by Jesse Eisenberg) at the FBI Academy? Gag.
I'm in the midst of an X-Files rewatch (I'm just starting Season 7) and up to this point the series is awesome. The characters of Mulder and Scully are fantastic and the chemistry between is cool. That chemistry is part of why the series was so good and it would be very hard to recreate with new casting.

I love their monster-of-the-week type stories and in many ways they do stuff I'd love to see in a space adventure series.
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Old July 26 2013, 06:33 PM   #96
Kinokima
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

BennieGamali wrote: View Post
I love TOS because of the characters. I know why some people hate Bones, but he's awesome IMO. I don't really see himas the "heart" of the group. And being emotional isn't always positive. One reason I love Bones is that he is a bit of a grumpy ass, but he's a good guy in the end. Besides. I always found him and Spock fighting funny. The trio would be lame without Dr.Grumpy and Mr. Logical fighting.

I think more people like Bones than dislike him. In character polls he tends be in the top 10 of all Trek characters (even top 5). Perhaps not on the same level of Spock love, but Bones is definitely a well liked character. Not hurt by the fact that De Kelley is considered one of the nicest actors of the original cast.

But there are definitely a group of people who just do not understand his character at all or are obsessed with Spock to the point that they see Spock as a perfect saint and Bones is just getting on his case because he is an evil racist.

Funny thing is these same people don't understand Spock either. I have read quotes from Nimoy, Kelley, and even Roddenberry claiming Spock and Bones were friends despite their differences.

In fact Nimoy compared Spock/Bones to Burns and Allen (you know an old married couple) & Abbott and Costello. He said he saw Spock/Bones banter as very similar to the "Who's On First" comedy routine.

Okay rant over

Last edited by Kinokima; July 26 2013 at 06:43 PM.
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Old July 26 2013, 06:36 PM   #97
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

^^ Very true. In real life two friends can get away with saying some of the nastiest stuff to each other that they'd never think of saying to a stranger, or tolerate edgy banter that they'd never accept from anyone else.

Another example: check out the banter between Clint Eastwood and the barber in Gran Torino.
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Old July 26 2013, 06:46 PM   #98
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Kinokima wrote: View Post
BennieGamali wrote: View Post
I love TOS because of the characters. I know why some people hate Bones, but he's awesome IMO. I don't really see himas the "heart" of the group. And being emotional isn't always positive. One reason I love Bones is that he is a bit of a grumpy ass, but he's a good guy in the end. Besides. I always found him and Spock fighting funny. The trio would be lame without Dr.Grumpy and Mr. Logical fighting.

I think more people like Bones than dislike him. In character polls he tends be in the top 10 of all Trek characters (even top 5). Perhaps not on the same level of Spock love, but Bones is definitely a well liked character. Not hurt by the fact that De Kelley is considered one of the nicest actors of the original cast.

But there are definitely a group of people who just do not understand his character at all or are obsessed with Spock to the point that they see Spock as a perfect saint and Bones is just getting on his case because he is an evil racist.

Funny thing is these same people don't understand Spock either. I have read quotes from Nimoy, Kelley, and even Roddenberry claiming Spock and Bones were friends despite their differences.

In fact Nimoy compared Spock/Bones to Burns and Allen (you know an old married couple) & Abbott and Costello. He said he saw Spock/Bones banter as very similar to the "Who's On First" comedy routine.

Okay rant over
Warped9 wrote: View Post
^^ Very true. In real life two friends can get away with saying some of the nastiest stuff to each other that they'd never think of saying to a stranger, or tolerate edgy banter that they'd never accept from anyone else.

Another example: check out the banter between Clint Eastwood and the barber in Gran Torino.
The three of them are such close friends, they spend all their free time together, as pointed out by McCoy in TFF.

And then there's this:
Kirk: Come on. Spock... Why didn't you jump in?
Spock: I was trying to comprehend the meaning of the words.
McCoy: It's a song, you green-blooded... Vulcan. You sing it. The words aren't important. What's important is that you have a good time singing it.
Spock: Oh, I am sorry Doctor. Were we having a good time?
McCoy: God I liked him better before he died.
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Old July 26 2013, 07:01 PM   #99
Shat Happens
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Star Wars revolutionized sf movies. Every movie that came after had to have a certain set of characteristics in order to even be recognizable as a space movie. That is common knowledge, of course.

TOS came before, so it does not follow all the tropes SW made, that's it's problem. Not really a problem, but a reason. I love TOS.
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Old July 26 2013, 07:03 PM   #100
Kinokima
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

BennieGamali wrote:
I don't really see himas the "heart" of the group. And being emotional isn't always positive.
Sorry missed these quotes but I want to respond. No being emotional is definitely not always positive, but either is being logical. That is the point of Spock and Bones. Neither logic or emotion by themselves is enough you need both.

As for being the "heart" of the trio well I will stick with that.

Kirk is the man of action, the one who ultimately makes the decisions, or the body and soul of the group.

Spock is the mind. He helps Kirk with his decisions by giving him the logical, rational, and intelligent advice. McCoy is the heart by giving Kirk the humanistic and emotional advice. But again Kirk needed both sides.

Or you can just say they are Ethos, Pathos and Logos
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Old July 26 2013, 08:57 PM   #101
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
Star Wars revolutionized sf movies. Every movie that came after had to have a certain set of characteristics in order to even be recognizable as a space movie. That is common knowledge, of course.
You'll have to explain that rather that just state it flatly and expect it to just be accepted.

SW simply established a popular formula for sci-fi, but it still doesn't define what a science fiction film has to be. SW was a straight-up adventure story with a measure of action and pacing. It was essentially a tip-of-the-hat to old sci-fi serials and pulp stories. And there was little depth to it either. Ironically the core of SW can be traced right back to E.E. Doc Smith and Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter stories. The irony, of course, is that John Carter eventually made it to film long after SW and JC seemed (to some) derivative when it's actually the other way around.

There was a spate of SF oriented films coming out in the '70s and '80s and they shared some elements and also could be distinct from each other in other ways. SW wasn't the only successful one, but it's one that doesn't have a lot of meat-and-potatoes to it. If anything SW (along with Jaws) began the formula for the block-buster feature rather than defining the formula for successful sci-fi---make it slick and not necessarily deep. Abrams' Trek followed the SW formula exactly.

Make it slick and flashy and dumb it way down. But that doesn't mean a sci-fi or science fiction film has to be done like that.
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Old July 26 2013, 09:01 PM   #102
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Warped9 wrote: View Post
You'll have to explain that rather that just state it flatly and expect it to just be accepted.
The irony, it burns...
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Old July 26 2013, 09:02 PM   #103
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
You'll have to explain that rather that just state it flatly and expect it to just be accepted.
The irony, it burns...
I could tell you what you can do with your remark, but I'd be wasting my breathe.
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Old July 26 2013, 09:29 PM   #104
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
You'll have to explain that rather that just state it flatly and expect it to just be accepted.
The irony, it burns...
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Old July 26 2013, 10:19 PM   #105
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Re: why is star trek original series disliked

TOS Trek has a special charm for me- I watched it on the first airing (along with VttBotS and LiS, etc...) and it was always a world I wanted to be a part of. Out of all the different series and despite all the budgets the TOS Bridge is still my favorite- it looked clean, practical and capable of controlling the entire ship as a nerve center. It did not upstage the characters but supported them.
The shows and acting was sometimes hit of miss, but the dynamics of the cast were wonderful. You could tell they had a history together and enjoyed what they were doing.
I am probably one of the few that prefer the remastered shows- the shows are still the same but the SFX and planetary vistas are more realistic. I do like model shots, even obvious ones like in the Gerry Anderson shows, but when you see the ship pass by and can see interiors through the windows the ship becomes more than just a thing on a filming stand.
Other shows may benefit from modern techniques and bigger budgets, but what happened in the sixties has not repeated yet.
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