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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 25 2013, 05:56 PM   #16
trevanian
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Kinokima wrote: View Post
I don't know I wouldn't say Wyatt came off as a "real person" here but that is partially because of the dream like nature of the episode (which I absolutely love, it's one of my favorites from season 3)
True enough, he wasn't presented as a "real" person, but what is interesting is that the whole sequence was patterned after Kirk's knowledge and view of history. What Kirk knew (or could recollect) was used as "the pattern of their deaths" as the Melkot put it. And here we see Wyatt Earp and his brothers (as well as Doc Holliday) in an unfavourable light. It could be seen as Kirk's view of history running counter to what is popularly believed today and even more so when TOS was in production.

That said when you read up on the event and the people involved as well as what lead up to the event no one really comes across well. A lot of the Old West seems to be made up of bad men, badder men and a lot of those of dubious character.
I haven't read it in 37 years, but there is a book called TRIGGERNOMETRY that really debunks and demythologizes the actual gunfighters. The one detail I remembes is William Bonney on a staircase shooting down at the back of a guy at the foot of the stairs, less than 9 ft away, not even under fire, and missing him completely, only wounding him due to lucky richochet.

This thread was kind of neat timing, since I was watching ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST this morning and just got BITE THE BULLET on blu ray too.
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Old July 25 2013, 06:33 PM   #17
Warped9
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

As I understand it the Old West guns were pretty much crap in terms of accuracy, and certainly nothing compared to modern handguns including revolvers.

I think I once saw a Mythbusters segment on this very thing, too.
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Old July 25 2013, 06:51 PM   #18
Jonas Grumby
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
When lightning flashes, the trees cast shadows on the nearby sky cylcorama.
This may well be another "nitpick" from the episode that was in fact done completely on purpose. Like the switching of character positions between shots during the Earps' "trek" to the O.K. Corral.
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Old July 25 2013, 08:47 PM   #19
ssosmcin
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
The same problem can be seen on Lost in Space in "The Anti-Matter Man," which was pretty shocking ...
Totally intentional. The anti-matter world was lit and shot in such a way that all of the limitations were made obvious; the ends of the set, the shadows on the walls, the glaringly fake mountains in the distance all shot from a high crane. It was one of the very few times they could shoot on the set and not worry about making sure everything was in the right proportion or angle.

I suspect Spectre of the Gun was shot the same way. With the lack of budget to have full buildings or to shoot on a location, they decision was made to use the bits and pieces to make facades. Since it was an illusion and obviously artificial, this was played up. No film crew of any skill would have shadows of trees against the backdrop that obvious unless it was intentional. And the crews of both Star Trek and Lost in Space were very skilled pros. Irwin Allen only hired hacks when it came to scripts, not his technicians.

But seriously, Zap, you were kidding about LIS being the gold standard for believable sci-fi. Right?
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Old July 25 2013, 09:59 PM   #20
Kinokima
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

I think Spectre of the Gun looked fantastic for something that was obvious low budget. It is an example of what you can do with a low budget in a creative way. It is the same with Empath for me. Those two episodes are definitely my favorites in terms of look & atmosphere.

Spectre of the Gun is also my favorite of the alternative world episodes. Well I guess it wasn't pure alternative world because it was all in the mind, but that is why I liked it. Best explanation for doing a genre piece in Star Trek. And not to mention I always felt Trek already had a bit of a Western feel to it.

Another nice thing about the episode is it included Scotty and Chekov instead of some no name character (plus Chekov not Kirk got the girl).
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Old July 25 2013, 11:26 PM   #21
Warped9
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

When I was a kid I didn't care for the look of the sets in "Spectre Of The Gun" and "The Empath," but as the years passed I grew to appreciate the artistic creativity in both episodes. Having the Vian consoles seemingly hanging in mid air with no visible means of physical support looks like highly advanced tech. The incomplete buildings of the Melkotians' Old West illusion really enhances the surreality of the situation.
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Old July 26 2013, 01:36 AM   #22
ZapBrannigan
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
...because Lost in Space was usually the gold standard for believable science fiction.
Admiral James Kirk wrote: View Post
Zap were you being ironic?
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Uh, in what alternate universe? LiS was known as what most people expected from sci-fi (silly escapist fantasy) particularly back in the day. At no point was it ever considered "the gold standard" for believable science fiction.
ssosmcin wrote: View Post
But seriously, Zap, you were kidding about LIS being the gold standard for believable sci-fi. Right?

Yes, I was kidding. I'm fond of LIS, but that gold standard bit was a joke.

The theory that the tree shadows on both shows were deliberate sounds right. There's even a saying today: when you have a deficiency or shortcoming (i.e., the small size of an indoor planet set), don't try to hide it. Hang a lantern on it and make it into a signature. Balding men shave their heads completely now. The actor who needs glasses wears the biggest, heavy black frames anybody ever saw.
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Old July 26 2013, 01:49 AM   #23
marksound
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
As I understand it the Old West guns were pretty much crap in terms of accuracy, and certainly nothing compared to modern handguns including revolvers.

I think I once saw a Mythbusters segment on this very thing, too.
There is an entire sport devoted to "cowboy action" shooting. I've seen people shoot a hole in a target and chase multiple shots through the same hole, using the weapon's original fixed sights. A single action cartridge revolver can be tuned to be as accurate as any modern counterpart.

Not saying that anyone actually took time to do that back then, but it is possible.
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Old July 26 2013, 09:08 AM   #24
Push The Button
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

Kinokima wrote: View Post
I think Spectre of the Gun looked fantastic for something that was obvious low budget. It is an example of what you can do with a low budget in a creative way. It is the same with Empath for me. Those two episodes are definitely my favorites in terms of look & atmosphere.

Spectre of the Gun is also my favorite of the alternative world episodes. Well I guess it wasn't pure alternative world because it was all in the mind, but that is why I liked it. Best explanation for doing a genre piece in Star Trek. And not to mention I always felt Trek already had a bit of a Western feel to it.

Another nice thing about the episode is it included Scotty and Chekov instead of some no name character (plus Chekov not Kirk got the girl).
One of my favorite third-season episodes, had a great Twilight Zone feel to it.
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Old July 26 2013, 04:42 PM   #25
J.T.B.
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

trevanian wrote: View Post
I haven't read it in 37 years, but there is a book called TRIGGERNOMETRY that really debunks and demythologizes the actual gunfighters.
Yeah, I checked that book out from the library many times when I was a kid. I should try to find a copy.

Kinokima wrote: View Post
I think Spectre of the Gun looked fantastic for something that was obvious low budget. It is an example of what you can do with a low budget in a creative way. It is the same with Empath for me. Those two episodes are definitely my favorites in terms of look & atmosphere.
"Spectre" is really a high point in the third season to me, and the surreal setting is a great example of turning a (budgetary) weakness into a strength. I don't think it would have worked as well in terms of alien bizarreness if it had been done on location or a western town backlot.

"The Empath," OTOH... I guess the setting seems alien but it's not enough to overcome its crummy writing, dreary pacing, ambivalent direction and overacting. Yes, I hate it.

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
There is an entire sport devoted to "cowboy action" shooting. I've seen people shoot a hole in a target and chase multiple shots through the same hole, using the weapon's original fixed sights. A single action cartridge revolver can be tuned to be as accurate as any modern counterpart.
Probably not as accurate, because the high standards of modern metallurgy in the parts. But certainly accurate enough for what they were used for in the old days, when most handgun "fighting" occurred at too close a range to even use the sights.
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Old July 26 2013, 06:12 PM   #26
Kinokima
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Re: Will the real Wyatt Earp please stand...

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
"The Empath," OTOH... I guess the setting seems alien but it's not enough to overcome its crummy writing, dreary pacing, ambivalent direction and overacting. Yes, I hate it.
I feel the complete opposite about the Empath. It is one of my favorites not just from the 3rd season but the entire series in general.

The overall look of the episode is just one thing I love. My favorite thing about it is actually how the relationship & friendship of the main 3 are portrayed. And at least in terms of Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley I think the acting was great. But that is just my opinion.
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