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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old July 25 2013, 05:43 PM   #16
Shane Houston
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Re: Would Rom's Cloaked Minefield Work on the Exit Aperture of a Borg

R. Star wrote: View Post
Photon wrote: View Post
I always saw the TW conduits as permanent or at least semi permanent mainly b/c of the 5's map of the conduit system. Don't know how accurate it was, but it'd be hard to make a map of something if the objects in the map were always in a state of flux
You're assuming too much continuity. In TNG transwarp was just a "superior power source" that could go faster and longer than warp. The Enterprise was able to keep up with the Cube for awhile in Best of Both Worlds for example and stay within striking distance. In First Contact one assumes it was the same given the Federation fleet was able to still intercept the Cube rather far from Earth to engage it in a long running battle(unless you choose to believe the Enterprise E got from the Neutral Zone to Earth in a few hours).

By the time the Borg came to Voyager in Scorpion, they were still using the "superior power source" mode of travel. Otherwise the "time to travel through our space" argument is just two fold stupid, the Borg for proposing it and Voyager for believing it. Otherwise they should've just been able to drag Voyager to the edge of their space, heck drop them off at Earth for the cure.

It wasn't until Dark Frontier they started changing things to suit the various plots of the week. There was the transwarp coil that apparently anyone can just walk onto a Borg ship and grab. By all accounts it functioned similarly to the "quantum slipstream drive" that was used in Timeless which Seven supposedly adapted from Borg technology. It used the same tunnel graphic too. The Delta Flyer was able to use one of these to fly to Borg Space and back in the space of one episode.

In Unimatrix Zero by all accounts, they just seemed to have forgotten they had this technology as suits the plot as Voyager was able to intercept Borg vessels at will... except in the same episode they retcon this again since the "rebel Borg" ships joined them in a facepalming scene.

It wasn't until Endgame that transwarp hubs with exit apertures were brought up. Which given the way the Borg and Voyager had already used "transwarp' to fly from non-fixed destinations. Heck they even maneuver while at transwarp. The whole reason of being for the transwarp hub was a plot device designed to be "important" enough to give Admiral Janeway an excuse to martyr herself to destroy while simultaneously getting Voyager home with the Earth exit aperture which apparently the Borg just didn't feel like using in the two previous attacks.
Huh. I pride myself on being an old school Trekkie, having watched every hour ever produced on TV and in the movies, and I never thought about the transwarp inconsistencies until I read your post. Nicely done.

I never thought to ask after watching Endgame why the hell they'd need a transwarp network if their ships had transwarp coils.
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Old July 25 2013, 05:46 PM   #17
Anwar
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Re: Would Rom's Cloaked Minefield Work on the Exit Aperture of a Borg

R. Star wrote: View Post
You're assuming too much continuity. In TNG transwarp was just a "superior power source" that could go faster and longer than warp.
Picard mentioned the Borg having a superior power source to explain how they got to Fed space so fast in a year and a half from their first encounter with them. He was being hypothetical. After they found out about Transwarp Conduits, it's most likely they realized "Oh, THAT'S how they got here so fast."

The Enterprise was able to keep up with the Cube for awhile in Best of Both Worlds for example and stay within striking distance. In First Contact one assumes it was the same given the Federation fleet was able to still intercept the Cube rather far from Earth to engage it in a long running battle(unless you choose to believe the Enterprise E got from the Neutral Zone to Earth in a few hours).
Which adds to the Transwarp Conduit thing. The ships don't have super-duper Warp Drives, they use the Conduits to get places fast from the Delta Quadrant/anywhere else.

Otherwise they should've just been able to drag Voyager to the edge of their space, heck drop them off at Earth for the cure.
They could have, but that'd end the show.

In Unimatrix Zero by all accounts, they just seemed to have forgotten they had this technology as suits the plot as Voyager was able to intercept Borg vessels at will...
They still have it, but perhaps Transwarp Conduits drain a lot of power and should be used only for the big long-range trips.

It wasn't until Endgame that transwarp hubs with exit apertures were brought up. Which given the way the Borg and Voyager had already used "transwarp' to fly from non-fixed destinations.
The idea of the Borg having Conduits was originally from TNG, though. "Descent".

the Earth exit aperture which apparently the Borg just didn't feel like using in the two previous attacks.
Fully possible they just hadn't created that particular conduit yet, and another reason Future Janeway destroyed it was because that conduit was just finished and she knew it'd be used for another invasion in the future.

EDIT:

I never thought to ask after watching Endgame why the hell they'd need a transwarp network if their ships had transwarp coils.
The Coils are to help use the Transwarp Network as well as boost normal space warp drive. The Network is still superior to their normal ship drives.

Last edited by Anwar; July 25 2013 at 07:32 PM.
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Old July 25 2013, 08:04 PM   #18
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Re: Would Rom's Cloaked Minefield Work on the Exit Aperture of a Borg

Picard mentioned the Borg having a superior power source to explain how they got to Fed space so fast in a year and a half from their first encounter with them. He was being hypothetical. After they found out about Transwarp Conduits, it's most likely they realized "Oh, THAT'S how they got here so fast."
And after they learned a bit more about the Borg, they most likely realized "Oh, so they where here all the time and didn't need to get here from anywhere"...

There was no mention of the "Q Who?" or "BoBW" Borg doing anything called transwarp, so we can't claim that transwarp changed just because the Borg after these episodes started moving differently.

perhaps Transwarp Conduits drain a lot of power and should be used only for the big long-range trips.
Or perhaps they simply don't go to all that many places, and take a lot of effort to construct. So you take the conduit to a location close to your destination, and fly the rest of the way by more conventional means.

The idea of the Borg having Conduits was originally from TNG, though. "Descent".
Back then, we could speculate that this was something specific to Lore's deranged Borg. Nowadays, we can speculate that only the unique looks of the "Descent" conduits (and their ship) were due to the insanity of Lore's mini-collective.

The Coils are to help use the Transwarp Network as well as boost normal space warp drive.
Or perhaps a coil is an absolute requirement for opening a conduit mouth and entering, except in "Descent" where the conduit was abnormal because of its builders being abnormal.

It could also be that the coil is needed for plowing new conduits into untamed space, and in "Dark Frontier" Janeway had no idea that there also was a preexisting network of readymade conduits available to her, so she desperately wanted to steal the snowplow.

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