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Old July 20 2013, 05:08 AM   #16
Warped9
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

^^ Initially I thought it looked rather interesting. But now that I consider that the landing craft bay doors slide forward (to open) under that section I'm figuring it is part of the landing bay facilities.
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Old July 20 2013, 05:10 AM   #17
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

My overall thinking in terms of Trek history and technology also doesn't follow the "official" version.

In 2018 Earth develops the impulse drive or some form thereof which allows for fast relativistic starflight and to break free of the solar system. This allows velocities in excess of .9c. Around the 2060s Cochrane develops his space warp superimpellor. It's a bit vague on whether he developed simply the mathematics and formula or an actual working drive system, but more than 150 years later he does recognize Spock as a Vulcan so evidently Cochrane's development results in actual warp driven starcraft within his lifetime (I don't buy FC's assertion that Vulcans basically rescued us and helped raise us out from being a bombed out civilization).

From Cochrane's development onward the space warp formula is basically the familiar one cited in The Making Of Star Trek: speed = WF cubed x the speed of light. And this formula stands until about the mid 2240s when Richard Daystrom's duotronic systems revolutionize computer technology particularly in terms of propulsion, navigation and guidance as well as the development of viable teleportation systems. Daystrom's systems are now sufficiently fast enough for the computational and processing speeds required for such real advancements. It's the leap forward, the genuine dividing line between the "primitive" technology cited by Spock in "Balance Of Terror" and the current TOS era. It also gels with Jose Tyler's reference in "The Cage:" "You won't believe how fast you can get back (to Earth). Our new ships can..." There is a subtext throughout TOS that not too long prior to the Pike era interstellar starlight was rather more rudimentary than what we see in the TOS era. My idea is that in the "modern" era the warp flight formula is WF cubed x .02 = light years per hour. This redefining of the warp formula now really allows for the velocities and transit times referenced in throughout TOS.

There is another subtext throughout TOS that the Federation also isn't that old---perhaps only decades and not a century as cited in TNG and the rest.


This is how the design currently stands.



I'm thinking of building two variants of my 22nd century clipper: the exploratory ship seen above and the transport variant. I actually envisioned the Woden seen in "The Ultimate Computer" as being one of these old transports converted to automation.


The detail work is going a bit slowly as I think it through. I want to add detail that enhances the design with interesting visual texture and yet I don't want to overdo it because I want the ship to look like it could belong in the TOS universe.
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Old July 25 2013, 01:18 AM   #18
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

A bit more incremental progress. It's now matter of sweating the surface details. In the process I sometimes try things that don't work out, but that process often leads to getting a better idea of what does work.

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Old July 25 2013, 11:44 PM   #19
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
In the process I sometimes try things that don't work out, but that process often leads to getting a better idea of what does work.
Oh, I know that trial & error method very well. What you have in your mind at the start almost never looks the same once it's down on paper (or up on the computer screen), does it?
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Old July 26 2013, 01:12 AM   #20
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Sgt_G wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
In the process I sometimes try things that don't work out, but that process often leads to getting a better idea of what does work.
Oh, I know that trial & error method very well. What you have in your mind at the start almost never looks the same once it's down on paper (or up on the computer screen), does it?
Usually my overall concept is pretty much right, but the devil is in massaging the details.

For inspiration I look to all sorts of things: walking through a hardware store or looking through a home workshop or garage, perusing magazines and books and book covers, diverse aircraft and ships and cars and trains and all manner of vehicles real and fictional, the most innocuous objects. It might be found anywhere where you see a shape or pattern in something that just happens to turn a light on in your imagination.
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Old July 28 2013, 01:57 AM   #21
Irishman
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Making some decent progress here. I'm not going to slavishly follow my original drawings except for the overall major components in terms of general shape and proportions. I'm going to depart mostly in terms of detailing.

I am so pleased to see you fleshing this out in 3D. This, to me, is one of your best designs for a space vessel EVER.

How long would you say you've had to devote to getting it to this point in 3D?
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Old July 28 2013, 03:20 AM   #22
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

As I get evermore proficient with SketchUp I find it really doesn't take me long to build something up in general terms. The detailing takes longer simply because it gets a bit more complex and there's more of it than the general overall shape. I've gotten to the point where it really doesn't take me too long to figure out how to build something even as I get into more complex shapes.

If you're unfamiliar with 3D modelling I can tell you it shares one thing very much like building a physical model from scratch (as opposed to a plastic model kit with prefabricated parts). In 3D, just like with a physical scratch build, you have to build every single part or element from scratch and then put them all together. If you have identical or mirror elements then you need build it only once and make identical copies of it which does save you some time.

More on point, though, with my current project I built up the major components within the framework of a few hours. Like any hobby I work on it a bit at a time then take a break to come back later and pickup where I left off.

This is how the model presently stands. I'm trying for a mix of symmetrical and asymmetrical detailing to make it more visually interesting.

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Old July 28 2013, 04:06 AM   #23
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

I couldn't see an NX-Era starclipper with a saucer section, but closer to the blockier utilitarian John Eaves' Connestoga-type courier/transport.
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Old July 28 2013, 04:24 AM   #24
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

HoserTrek37 wrote: View Post
I couldn't see an NX-Era starclipper with a saucer section, but closer to the blockier utilitarian John Eaves' Connestoga-type courier/transport.
Well as far as I'm concerned ENT never happened in TOS' continuity anyway so it don't matter. Besides I've never cared for the NX-01 design either.
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Old July 31 2013, 07:00 PM   #25
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
HoserTrek37 wrote: View Post
I couldn't see an NX-Era starclipper with a saucer section, but closer to the blockier utilitarian John Eaves' Connestoga-type courier/transport.
Well as far as I'm concerned ENT never happened in TOS' continuity anyway so it don't matter. Besides I've never cared for the NX-01 design either.
Since I happen to be what you might call a "glass half full" kind of guy, I generally see three general possibilities for the timeline, one in which the ST Universe happens pretty much as described in the Spaceflight Chronology, one more or less depicted in ST Enterprise, and finally, my personal favorite, a timeline in which all of the events and vessels depicted in Enterprise exist, but so do most, if not all of the vessels from Masao's Starfleet Museum. Any events that happened in the Spaceflight Chronology that do not contradict events in Enterprise also presumably happened, more or less.

That also brings me to another timeline I have brainstormed on many occasions, in which the events and ships described in Spaceflight Chronology exist, and how the events in ST: First Contact would have gone differently (such as the Earth Solar Fleet engaging the Borg Sphere as it arrives from the future, with the Enterprise-E coming out of the temporal vortex to help the Earth fleet to finish off the Sphere before any more damage can be done), but that is perhaps a discussion for another time and place.

I see Starfleet at this point as having the most advanced ships and technology, like our military today has the fastest and most advanced aircraft, spacecraft, weapons, and most of all, technology available today, which some say is lightyears ahead of the technology available to us average citizens. And for the most part, the NX Project is an exception to Starfleet's usual activities, which is more often defense and war on behalf of United Earth, as opposed to exploration, which they usually reserve to UESPA, whose ships might even not have begun to have been really well armed until first contact with the Klingons. Incidents with the Suliban, the Tholians, the Klingons, the Xindi, and finally the Romulans would see UESPA be given the task of taking on a more defensive role, and eventually working with Starfleet to take the fight to the Romulans during the War.

And I find it ironic that you never really liked the NX design, but you are still using a saucer for the primary hull, just like the NX class. No matters, I could probably still find a role for it in my own little vision of the timeline. Whether or not it is a Starfleet or UESPA vessel, seeing as how I find nothing wrong with the notion that different manufacturers were experimenting with the same hull shapes.

I find the shape of the saucer section to be quite appealing.
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Old July 31 2013, 07:36 PM   #26
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

My reasoning for the saucer is thinking that the 22nd century could have been time of experimentation when all kinds of technologies and configurations were being tried to find an optimal design. And so it's not farfetched that a saucer design could be among that diversity of concepts being explored and tested.
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Old August 4 2013, 10:40 PM   #27
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Clipper is a good name for it. A very large impulse section. That doesn't have to mean primitive though.

A ship with a rudimentary warp drive--maybe a slower nacelle with really great long life--is good for moving a ship to a system---where it spends most of its useful life. There---a big impulse drive and lots of fuel allows a ship to remain in-system, perhaps on a semi-permanent basis.
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Old August 5 2013, 01:24 AM   #28
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

Detail work is progressing slowly but steadily.





I particularly like the side and bow elevations.
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Old August 5 2013, 03:58 PM   #29
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

^ Definitely!

The reason why I asked earlier about the "raised" part on the secondary hull was that, if it's a "star clipper"... You could possibly make it something of a mast-type structure, as a homage to the China Clippers of old (known for their beautiful lines and lots of sail area).

Obviously, solar sails or something similar would be silly/superfluous, but make it a scanner/transmission mast, etc. You could still incorporate the landing craft area idea mentioned above at the base of the structure, just have side beams/struts come up and meet above that area. Hard to explain, but hopefully you can see what I had in mind.

Cheers
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Old August 5 2013, 03:59 PM   #30
Warped9
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Re: 22nd century star clipper...

The raised aft end (behind the triangular projection) is actually the auxiliary craft landing bay. On the top view you can see the faint outline of the three-panel bay doors.

Something else I think I've managed is a design more rudimentary looking without being overly clunky and awkward. I'm not going to define every single element within the design, but I am trying for a concept where some machinery looks exposed (without having to actually name what you're seeing). This will be particularly true on the underside (above the nacelle) which I haven't tackled yet.

I might do a rudimentary cutaway/deck layout to get a better sense of scale for the purpose of getting hard dimensions. Eventually I'd like to work out a loose backstory. ship capabilities and perhaps even a list of names.
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