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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 24 2013, 02:05 PM   #76
Irishman
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Location: Charlotte, NC
Re: Original or remastered effects?

Kinokima wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Yes, that's what I asked in the original post. Eighty dollars is a lot of money for me. My television can only pick up analog signals. And Blu-Ray films I've seen in stores average near $40. Not everyone has as much money to play with as you do. Thanks for the public ridicule.
Don't worry I don't have a Blu-Ray player either. I don't see a need for one. Sure they have gone down in price but there is always something else I want more. Not to mention I still have a non-flat screen TV.

Funny enough I know very few people with a Blu-Ray player. No one in my office has one. And out of my friends (all of us in are low 30's) only one has one.

This whole notion that everyone has a Blu-Ray player is false.
For those who have the budget, and who care about a better picture, blu-ray matters and has become the default.

I'm sure that CBS isn't marketing the remastered versions to people who aren't these people.
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Old July 24 2013, 04:06 PM   #77
Melakon
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

If I were still working and making the kind of money I was 25 years ago, I'd be buying a big screen tv, a nice sound system, Blu-Ray, and the whole bit. I used to have about 500 titles of prerecorded videotapes. But I can't afford that kind of stuff anymore, and I'm gradually going blind so upgrading would be wasted. And it sucks being a member of the lower class now.
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Old July 24 2013, 05:45 PM   #78
SpHeRe31459
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Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Original or remastered effects?

Irishman wrote: View Post
They put a new team on it and had them produce improved models/FX for the following seasons.
That's incorrect. Same team (CBS Digital), they just learned from their weekly grind how to improve their rendering speed and CG modeling skills.

http://trekmovie.com/2006/10/18/trek...ew-enterprise/

http://trekmovie.com/2006/11/20/behi...t-cbs-digital/

The new Enteprise CG model was debuted after a handful of episodes were made (8 to be exact), not an entire season. It debuted with the airing of "The Trouble With Tribbles" on the week of November 4, 2006.

Also note, TOS-R was done in batches grouped by "popularity" for first run broadcast syndication on US TV over the course of 2006-2008, not in the original production order. So those 8 episodes with the pretty poor Enterprise model is in a few second season episodes they did in the first 8 as well.

The eight episodes with the rather poor Enterprise model are (in 2006 TOS-R airing order, not original order):
Balance of Terror, Miri, The Devil in the Dark, The Naked Time, The City on the Edge of Forever, I, Mudd, Arena, Catspaw

Irishman wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
The subtle changes to the live action footage with the actors are almost all terrific and seamless (stuff like Scotty's phaser beam in "The Naked Time," Sulu's clock in the same episode, matte extensions, etc.). The new model shots, done with CGI, are much more of a mixed bag.
I find the new cityscape and structure shots almost invariably to be superior to the originals.
Yes indeed. The work Max Gabl and others like Niel Wray did on enhancing planets and planetscapes (matte paintings) is incredible work and very faithful to the original work. Those same guys are why the new TNG remastered planets look so great

Last edited by SpHeRe31459; July 24 2013 at 06:00 PM.
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Old July 24 2013, 06:25 PM   #79
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Here's a useful montage I found comprising multiple quick fire comparative stills. Despite some admittedly weak shots throughout the project, selecting the new FX as my default is a no brainer for me...
The new FX just do not sell. Reasons:

1. The 1701 never...ever appears to be a body of large scale at any time, and cannot escape the digital game look.

2. The shuttlecraft is entirely too large for the hangar. All one has to do is visualize the scale of the passengers, then apply that to rest of the ship. TOS was somewhat off in the miniatures' scale, but TOS-R seemed to enlarge the shuttle size. What were they thinking?

3. "Tommorow is Yesterday's" 1701-around-the-sun shot was horrible--the ship just "sat" there, while the sun appeared to be a spotted, orange blob looking nothing like that which is....in the damn sky every day.

4. Not so much an FX comment, but the new editing technology does not seamlessly match the dissolves from the oriignal production. In otherwords, the transition from TOS footage to new FX looks very much like any video edit job of today, which takes the viewer out of the moment.
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Old July 24 2013, 06:29 PM   #80
SpHeRe31459
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
4. Not so much an FX comment, but the new editing technology does not seamlessly match the dissolves from the oriignal production. In otherwords, the transition from TOS footage to new FX looks very much like any video edit job of today, which takes the viewer out of the moment.
In defense of #4, the issue they faced was that all that remained was the completed episode on a master 35mm reel in the Paramount vaults. So to make a replacement shot, they had to make the new VFX sequence go a split second longer than the time the original VFX shot took, so yes there's often a noticeable sort of cheap "time edited for syndication" look to it. CBS-D said they had no choice, and hated that it kept turning out that way despite their best efforts.
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Old July 24 2013, 06:38 PM   #81
Warped9
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
2. The shuttlecraft is entirely too large for the hangar. All one has to do is visualize the scale of the passengers, then apply that to rest of the ship. TOS was somewhat off in the miniatures' scale, but TOS-R seemed to enlarge the shuttle size. What were they thinking?
Everything they did with the shuttlecraft and hangar deck in TOS-R looks awful. The launch sequence always looks like a video game as opposed to a controlled launch as seen in TOS. Indeed, in real life a lot of the launch sequence would probably be done on automatic and by computer guidance rather than the pilot actually doing it manually. Crew control stopped at Spock (or the flight mission's commander) ordering "initiate launch" and the pilot hitting the switch for the automatic launch to go. And that's what it looks like in TOS. Same with the shuttlecraft landings. I really don't see Starfleet shuttlecraft being manually piloted for the launch and landing sequences.

In truth TOS' hangar deck miniature is depicted a bit too large (in terms of forced perspective) making the hangar look impossibly long. Mind you the TAS version is WAY oversized. And the TOS shuttlecraft looks a bit too small in the hangar. The original shot could be tweaked a bit to correct for scale without throwing off the overall feel of the scene.
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Old July 25 2013, 03:12 AM   #82
Praetor Baldric
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Here's a useful montage I found comprising multiple quick fire comparative stills. Despite some admittedly weak shots throughout the project, selecting the new FX as my default is a no brainer for me...

I see nothing but good in these enhancements.
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Old July 25 2013, 03:22 AM   #83
Push The Button
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Remastered.

Worth it for "The Doomsday Machine" alone.
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Old July 25 2013, 08:19 AM   #84
Melakon
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

We've probably all done a version of The Doomsday Machine. I used to have one of those little 5" AMT 3-ship sets. I did up the Enterprise as the Constellation, using a hot knife and paint to damage the saucer and one of the nacelles. Used to keep it on my desk at work.
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Old July 25 2013, 01:58 PM   #85
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Everything they did with the shuttlecraft and hangar deck in TOS-R looks awful. The launch sequence always looks like a video game as opposed to a controlled launch as seen in TOS.
Yes...awful is right. There is nothing remotely realistic about the game like rendering of the shuttle/shuttlebay sequences. How that was approved is beyond reason.
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Old July 25 2013, 02:25 PM   #86
Warped9
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Everything they did with the shuttlecraft and hangar deck in TOS-R looks awful. The launch sequence always looks like a video game as opposed to a controlled launch as seen in TOS.
Yes...awful is right. There is nothing remotely realistic about the game like rendering of the shuttle/shuttlebay sequences. How that was approved is beyond reason.
You can dump on TFF for all kinds of reasons, but there is one scene in it that resonates on this point. When Kirk orders their shuttlecraft to make a hasty emergency landing into the hangar bay Sulu actually looks a bit concerned, bolstering the idea that landings and launches are are near universally done on automatic. Probably a tractor beam guides the shuttlecraft in and out of the bay.

I think a lot of TOS-R gets attention largely because it was new and different, but when some really start to scrutinize it you start to see a lot of misses. I reiterate that I don't think a lot of the new f/x are a fail as a work unto itself, but that a lot of it doesn't fit seamlessly with the original aesthetic.
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Old July 26 2013, 03:40 PM   #87
Hober Mallow
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

CaptPapa wrote: View Post
I would recommend Netflix. I don't know where you are, or if Netflix is available everywhere, but if it's an option, I think it's a great deal. I pay $7.99 a month and can stream all the Star Trek I can take - including TOS remastered. I turned off my $80 a month Direct TV almost two years ago now and don't miss it a bit.
I did the same thing a year or so ago. I got Netflix and almost right away shut off my cable. It was a no-brainer for me: I was paying over $100 a month for no HD and hundreds of channels I never watched. Less than $10 month and I was able to watch what I wanted as many times as I wanted. Later I added Hulu Plus so see newer weekly shows. I'm out of luck with sports, but there's still relatives' houses and radio if nothing else. I'll never go back to cable.
Melakon wrote: View Post
As I understand pay-for-stream services like Netflix and Hulu+, and perhaps even what Amazon's doing, you're only buying a one time watch of that episode.
Nope, with Netflix you just pay a monthly fee like you would with cable, it's just a much smaller bill. I can't remember exactly what I'm paying, but I think it's still under $10 a month. I can stream TOS in HD all day long, and all the other Trek's as well. You can also rent the discs themselves, on either DVD or bluray, and they'll send them through the mail, so you can see the things you can't stream like DVD special features or commentary. There are no late fees -- I've kept some movies for nearly a month -- and never any extra charges. As I understand it , the monthly fee is based on how many movies you want to be able to rent through the mail at one time, i.e. you'll pay more if you want to be able to get two or three movies at once instead of just one. I just do the one movie at a time. You keep a list of the movies you want on the main Netflix website, and they send you what's on top of your list. If it's unavailable, they'll instead send you the next movie on your list. When you're done with it you just stick it back in the envelope, seal it up, and send it back out.

The only thing, though, is to be able to stream on your TV, you need a device to stream through. I have two, a bluray player which streams in HD, and a Wii in my room that only streams in standard definition. You can also stream through your computer.

I also have Hulu Plus, which is a flat monthly fee of, I think, $7. I'm only able to stream through my Wii, though. A lot of TV networks are on Hulu, so you get new shows weekly after they first air (and some shows before they actually air). Having Hulu is more like having cable TV, I suppose, whereas Netflix is like going to the video store to rent a movie. I believe both services offer all the Trek series, but I much prefer Netflix to Hulu. I have a lot more trouble with streaming titles on Hulu than on Netflix, which almost never gives me any trouble. It may be that my Wii just doesn't like Hulu; it frequently locks up while streaming and I end up having to do a hard shut down. Really annoying.
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