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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old July 23 2013, 11:30 PM   #61
BillJ
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Melakon wrote: View Post
I know about Netflix, but I'm the type of film buff who prefers having a physical library of tapes, disks, or whatever. As I understand pay-for-stream services like Netflix and Hulu+, and perhaps even what Amazon's doing, you're only buying a one time watch of that episode. Maybe Amazon is allowing downloads, but I don't think so. THe other problem I have with considering such services is my internet connection is not reliable. Recently my service was out for over a month, and didn't get repaired until the 10th. Since then, I have not gone 24 hours without the line dropping out several times a day, sometimes for over an hour. Suppose you lose connection in the middle of a streamed program you've already paid for?
Netflix and Hulu are streaming services. I believe with Amazon, like iTunes, you download the episode you pay for and keep it as long as you have the account.

But I also like having a physical library.
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Old July 23 2013, 11:33 PM   #62
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Melakon wrote: View Post
I know about Netflix, but I'm the type of film buff who prefers having a physical library of tapes, disks, or whatever. As I understand pay-for-stream services like Netflix and Hulu+, and perhaps even what Amazon's doing, you're only buying a one time watch of that episode. Maybe Amazon is allowing downloads, but I don't think so. THe other problem I have with considering such services is my internet connection is not reliable. Recently my service was out for over a month, and didn't get repaired until the 10th. Since then, I have not gone 24 hours without the line dropping out several times a day, sometimes for over an hour. Suppose you lose connection in the middle of a streamed program you've already paid for?
The Netflix package I have is not a pay-per system. I pay 7.99 per month for access to all of their streamable library. It's limited - you have to upgrade if you want to receive DVDs of new material to watch, but I watch several hours a week and it's worth it to me. Also, they have a 30-day free trial, and I had recommended it in answer to the original question - original, or remastered. They have all the remastered TOS (all of the Star Trek series as a matter of fact) and for one monthly price you can watch as many as you want, whenever you want. You could check out the remastered versions and see if that's something you'd like to invest in for your physical library.
Like you, I prefer to have a copy that I can put on shelf, but this is a way to sample before you purchase. I have the original version of TOS on DVD, bought it when it first came out, but watching the remastered on Netflix has convinced me to buy the remastered version - just haven't pulled the trigger yet.
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Old July 24 2013, 12:16 AM   #63
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Here's a useful montage I found comprising multiple quick fire comparative stills. Despite some admittedly weak shots throughout the project, selecting the new FX as my default is a no brainer for me...

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Old July 24 2013, 12:18 AM   #64
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

I dunno, maybe I'm not so dumb. Even after changing the aspect ratio output (repeatedly), the picture is still in the center of the screen. Actually, in order for the Hi Def 4:3 picture to fill the screen, it would have to zoom, (which would cut off the sides of a widescreen movie, focusing on the center) and my TV doesn't do that.

Standard Def DVDs in 4:3 fill the screen when played on the BD player - always have. 4:3 fills and 16:9 is letterboxed. However Blu-Ray discs letterbox everything on the CRT set, so Blu-Ray Trek is letter and piller boxed. I hope I'm explaining myself adequately, I'm bad at this...
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Old July 24 2013, 12:30 AM   #65
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
I dunno, maybe I'm not so dumb. Even after changing the aspect ratio output (repeatedly), the picture is still in the center of the screen. Actually, in order for the Hi Def 4:3 picture to fill the screen, it would have to zoom, (which would cut off the sides of a widescreen movie, focusing on the center) and my TV doesn't do that.

Standard Def DVDs in 4:3 fill the screen when played on the BD player - always have. 4:3 fills and 16:9 is letterboxed. However Blu-Ray discs letterbox everything on the CRT set, so Blu-Ray Trek is letter and piller boxed. I hope I'm explaining myself adequately, I'm bad at this...
The black bars on the TOS BD's are coded into the 1920x1080 pixel area, so this might be causing the problem. The actual viewing area is 1440x1080. To be honest, I haven't had a 4:3 set for many years - so I haven't had to overcome this issue.
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Old July 24 2013, 01:03 AM   #66
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Make sure the output is set to composite and for 480i.
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Old July 24 2013, 02:21 AM   #67
SpHeRe31459
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Oh yes another great site for comparing the changes made is
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/
Specifically:
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...s_planets1.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...s_planets2.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...s_planets3.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...s_surfaces.htm
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Old July 24 2013, 02:26 AM   #68
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
ssosmcin wrote: View Post
I dunno, maybe I'm not so dumb. Even after changing the aspect ratio output (repeatedly), the picture is still in the center of the screen. Actually, in order for the Hi Def 4:3 picture to fill the screen, it would have to zoom, (which would cut off the sides of a widescreen movie, focusing on the center) and my TV doesn't do that.

Standard Def DVDs in 4:3 fill the screen when played on the BD player - always have. 4:3 fills and 16:9 is letterboxed. However Blu-Ray discs letterbox everything on the CRT set, so Blu-Ray Trek is letter and piller boxed. I hope I'm explaining myself adequately, I'm bad at this...
The black bars on the TOS BD's are coded into the 1920x1080 pixel area, so this might be causing the problem. The actual viewing area is 1440x1080. To be honest, I haven't had a 4:3 set for many years - so I haven't had to overcome this issue.
Yeah I must admit that you might be stuck with it that way. I haven't had to worry about 4:3 TV in quite some time. Since HD is inherently a 16:9 format, they pillarboxed the 16:9 frame. So you might end up with the "postage stamp effect" on a 4:3 TV (i.e. a tiny 4:3 image inside a 16:9 image which being shrunk down to fit in a 4:3 screen), unless you can find some zoom mode in your TV set (not the player) that will zoom a 16:9 image to 4:3, and yes you'd have to toggle the zoom mode on or off depending on the content you'd be watching.
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Old July 24 2013, 03:51 AM   #69
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Yup, that's pretty much what I'm dealing with. I'll be getting a new HDTV before long (or so I hope), but this what's been keeping my Blu-Rays on the shelf for the past year.

Anywho, thanks!
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Old July 24 2013, 05:19 AM   #70
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Here's a useful montage I found comprising multiple quick fire comparative stills. Despite some admittedly weak shots throughout the project, selecting the new FX as my default is a no brainer for me...

Kinda fits with the bits I've glanced at ... the planet surface environments are mostly improved but the ships look godawful. It's almost like saying TAS looks better than TOS just because there aren't any matte lines ... you lose too much visual credibility with respect to the physical presence of the ship with these particular CG attempts, especially in terms of lighting.
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Old July 24 2013, 06:10 AM   #71
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Thanks for that clip, Lokai. I tried to reply earlier but my connection's been up and down about a dozen times since I last posted.
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Old July 24 2013, 12:11 PM   #72
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

trevanian wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Here's a useful montage I found comprising multiple quick fire comparative stills. Despite some admittedly weak shots throughout the project, selecting the new FX as my default is a no brainer for me...

Kinda fits with the bits I've glanced at ... the planet surface environments are mostly improved but the ships look godawful. It's almost like saying TAS looks better than TOS just because there aren't any matte lines ... you lose too much visual credibility with respect to the physical presence of the ship with these particular CG attempts, especially in terms of lighting.
Yes, the lighting is waaay too bright in many shots, but to be fair, there are some lovely Enterprise beauty passes rendered perfectly as well. For me, the original FX look extremely ropey on quality HD monitors, and on balance, the new material definitely improves the experience of TOS overall.

I can certainly understand why many would disagree though. But, the beauty of the BD's is the ability to choose for yourself - a really smart move from CBS.
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Old July 24 2013, 01:03 PM   #73
Warped9
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

While there are occasional individual elements that are of interest overall I feel TOS-R is a fail. I don't mean fail in terms of overall execution...if it were for a contemporary television production which TOS is not.

Dedicated fans have done better work than CBS because many fans often try to recreate the same TOS aesthetic in terms of lighting, lenses and camera movement. Doug Drexler's work for Star Trek Continues is a good example: the new f/x look like they fit seamlessly with the aesthetic of the live-action footage. As such there's nothing to jar you out of the story because it doesn't look like two distinctly separate productions stitched together, which is exactly what TOS-R is.

Here in Canada the new versions are being syndicated on Space so it can be seen on cable television anytime. I don't need to spend anything for Blu-ray and I can stick with my DVD box sets for TOS. And, yes, I do have a Blu-ray player. I now buy new film releases on Blu-ray, but I don't feel the need to replace previous DVD purchases. If they ever release the TMP DE on Blu-ray then I might pop for that one.

TOS could have been cleaned up and enhanced with new sequences that could have fit seamlessly with the original aesthetic and would have been clean enough to not be jarring to younger new viewers, but CBS didn't bother going that route. As such while I satisfied my curiosity in seeing the new versions I choose to stick with the originals.

I will add that I did go for the purchase of TNG-R on Blu-ray (the first few seasons which I like anyway) because the approach there is what should have been done for TOS. Yes, I know the situations are different because they had access to TNG's original f/x composites and they chose to offer the f/x as they were meant to be seen originally. Sadly TOS' original f/x composites are long gone, but it still could have been done though admittedly it would have been laborious and time consuming. Maybe someday it'll be done.
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Last edited by Warped9; July 24 2013 at 01:14 PM.
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Old July 24 2013, 01:53 PM   #74
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Overall, I'd say 70, maybe 75% of the new FX are rendered well and stand up to repeated viewing. However, when it goes wrong, it REALLY goes wrong. Example, some shots of the Galileo are just awful - looking like they've come straight out of some cheap mid 90's computer game!
I know that, after some complaint by fans over the quality of season 1's remastered FX, they put a new team on it and had them produce improved models/FX for the following seasons.
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Old July 24 2013, 01:59 PM   #75
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Re: Original or remastered effects?

Harvey wrote: View Post
The subtle changes to the live action footage with the actors are almost all terrific and seamless (stuff like Scotty's phaser beam in "The Naked Time," Sulu's clock in the same episode, matte extensions, etc.). The new model shots, done with CGI, are much more of a mixed bag.
I find the new cityscape and structure shots almost invariably to be superior to the originals.
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